M14 G&H Bracket, Mount and M82

[Cecil]

What's the consensus on this rig? It's G&H with a verified(Dave McClain) numbered mount.

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[M1Garandy]

FWIW, I have seen a couple of other brackets just like that. They were represented to be USGI and I had no reason to doubt that they are/were. I don’t have any of them handy but I have a couple of books on the M-14 and/or US Sniper rifles with that type of set pictured IIRC.

[Johnny in Texas]

Cecil post a picture of just the M14 bracket I will post pics of the 2 I have.

[Cass]

Cecil:

I took some close-ups to the one I have and sent to Dave McClain. He thought that based on others he has seen and the milling marks it appeared to be correct. Unfortunately, I lost the close-ups in a recent computer problem or I would post them now.

There were some commercial mounts made by Pete Michaels in the early 70's that were very similar to the Army Weapons Command version.

Here is a link to a post on another forum with some pictures:

http://www.m14tfl.com/upload/showthread.php?t=81356

Cass

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg277/mjcdmc/M14%20Vietnam%20Sniper%20Rifles/DSC04723e.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg277/mjcdmc/M14%20Vietnam%20Sniper%20Rifles/DSC04707e.jpg

[Johnny in Texas]

I do not think G&H made any of these brackets They were made by the AMTU originaly accordinG to Peter Senich

[Dan in NY]

I have a minty M1A NM from the late 70's, early 80's that would look awesome with any one of those scope/mount combos....Thanks for posting...Can I ask what one of those combos is worth?
$500? $1000? $2000?...Just want to know how deep I have to get the slush fund...

[Cass]

Thanks for the correction Johnny. I just re-looked at my 2 Senich books and he does seem to say they were fabricated by the AMTU and developed by the AWC/RIA. I think I picked up the G&H from Iannamico, the Last Steel Warrior where he refers to the "Griffin & Howe mounting bracket", but probably was actually referring to the mount. I'll correct the message above.

Cass

[Johnny in Texas]

Cas I have seen these made by others also I had one that had a name stamped inside. Te blued one in my pick looks exactly like the picture in Senich's book U.S. sniping.

[Cass]

I have a minty M1A NM from the late 70's, early 80's that would look awesome with any one of those scope/mount combos....Thanks for posting...Can I ask what one of those combos is worth?
$500? $1000? $2000?...Just want to know how deep I have to get the slush fund...

Hi Dan:

I've accumulated these over a number of years, but the demand has gotten fairly high these days. The AWC combo would probably sell for close to $1500 these days. The AR-TEL's (middle of the first picture and top of the second picture) seem to range from $1500 to $2500 with the aluminum can. The ART II's in the top of the first picture seem to range from $1200 to $1500 with the fiberglas can.

Cass

[Johnny in Texas]

I have always wondered why you never see this combination in Vietnam photos.

[Cass]

Ha, I like that set-up! But they probably didn't want to have to issue a stepladder with it so you could get high enough to see through the scope. ;)

When you think about it though, the time-line for the Kollmorgen and MC-1 mount is actually a lot closer than the M84 and WWII mount.

Is that the first type or second type scope? In need to find a nice FSN marked Kollmorgen to go with a mount I picked up last year.

Cass

[Johnny in Texas]

Yea it is high but you could a cheek pad. This one is the late FSN marked scope. I have never seen a MC-52 in any Vietnam photos either.

[Cecil]

Cecil post a picture of just the M14 bracket I will post pics of the 2 I have.

Hi Johnny,
Sorry for the delay.
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http://www.jouster.com/forums/images/misc/pencil.png

[Johnny in Texas]

Cecil your bracket seems to have the same left side profile of the one Cass has. I have now seen 3 different types of these mounts just based on machining techniques.That I see here.

[Cecil]

Hi Johnny,
So what's the consensus? Are they real or memorex?

[Johnny in Texas]

Cecil I am 99% sure the blued one I have is the same maker as the one in Senich's U.S. Sniping book the would be the bottom one in my pictures, yours Cass's and the Parked one I have I don't know about and I had one a couple years back that I bought for 75.00 and it had the makers initials and last name stamped on the inside flat area . Not sure about that one either. I think the large lock screw is repro because the front lever hits the knob on mine but not sure on that either.

[Cecil]

Johnny I've looked evert which way and I don't see any difference between your Senich mount and my mount other than the lock nob size.

[Johnny in Texas]

Cecil on page 247 Senich C.B. of US Sniping there are 2 side shots my blued brackets has the same rough finish and out of square line cut above the knob yours looks more like the top one. The top bracket in my pics looks to be cast and then machined so it is probably a repro. I don't know how many were made and if they were mass produced. Yours looks to be machined from bar stock so I would call it good. I would be surprised that these were reproduced there is no demand for them really.

[Cass]

Cecil, I don't see anything that concerns me about yours. I like the milling marks with the large radius.

The pictures in the books are all over the map and really aren't large enough to be much of a guide. Senich shows at least two or maybe three different types. Page 22 in The Long range War shows one from the West Point collection that is flat rather than stepped on the left face.

Some of the best pictures are in Lee Emerson's book, M14 Rifle history and Development. He shows the flat face version as commercial by Pete Michaels. Emerson and Iannamico both show the inside face of the bracket in their photos.

Cass

[Johnny in Texas]

The one I sold was stamped P. Michaels

[Cecil]

Again I see no difference in either of our mounts. With the exception of the finish. All the way down to the circular milling marks and bevel cut on the small (notch)

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[Johnny in Texas]

Cecil I think it may be the paint or whayever is on it makes yours look smoother. I said I had seen several types and as far as I know only the one marked P. Michaels is a repro. And maybe the one that I have that is parked. the inside looks cast , but maybe that was later production I have seen early Vietnam era Griffin & Howe mount rings that are cast and appear USGI . I received one on a CMP M1C I bought. Cecil I have thought they were all real until ran across the P. Michael repro. I on't think I haver payed more than 75.00 for one so I could not imagine someone faking them.
Now I have to suspect them all even mine??

[Cass]

Good point. I paid about $45...........not much of a market for fakers, ha!

I'm also glad to heard that your other was marked P. Michaels. That makes since that he would mark them if he wanted for word to get around so he could sell more.

[Bill Wylde]

A few photos of what I understand is an AWC M14 scope/base combo. These items came directly from RIA through an Illinois State surplus warehouse in Springfield, IL and this item was retained as it came due to having character. This scope has been there.

Many new scopes were in the lot, and quite a few of the scopes had the M1C G&H ring setup. This particular combo was the only one in the bunch that was tied to an M14 base.

The AWC base has no markings, but the M1C rings/lever lock has a four digit serial stamping that I presume was from the original mating to an M1C

http://i479.photobucket.com/albums/rr153/corben1_photo/AWCscopebase-M14002.jpg
http://i479.photobucket.com/albums/rr153/corben1_photo/AWCscopebase-M14003.jpg
http://i479.photobucket.com/albums/rr153/corben1_photo/AWCscopebase-M14004.jpg

[Cecil]

And again the circular milling marks.

5096

[Cass]

A few photos of what I understand is an AWC M14 scope/base combo. These items came directly from RIA through an Illinois State surplus warehouse in Springfield, IL and this item was retained as it came due to having character. This scope has been there.

Many new scopes were in the lot, and quite a few of the scopes had the M1C G&H ring setup. This particular combo was the only one in the bunch that was tied to an M14 base.

The AWC base has no markings, but the M1C rings/lever lock has a four digit serial stamping that I presume was from the original mating to an M1C



Interesting to see one of the "flat face" versions. Both versions are supposed to be correct.

The guy that I got my bracket from had about 5 of them. At least one was flat faced. He also had two of the M1C mounts with 4 digit numbers, but you could see part of the old number that had been ground off. The M1C mounts that were used, were originally marked with the full 7 digit serial number of the rifle (3XXXXXX), so the 4 digit number was likely the last digits of the M14 rifle.

Cass

[Cecil]

I like mine even with an original M1C mount.

[Johnny in Texas]

Cecil I learned a thing or two thanks for posting.

[Bill Wylde]

A photo of the four-digit serial stamped on the back side of the M1C G&H ring mount. Could well have been the last four digits of the M14 to which my scope was attached.

FWIW, I recall seeing an entire box full of the M14 mounts (less attaching screws) at a Bagnell Dam (MO) gun show shortly after obtaining this rig. Whether original or not, I have no idea, but I considered them to be almost identical to the base I have.

Just to make some of you sick, and to leave me with a feeling that I should have grabbed more of these scopes all those years ago........The price per unit, regardless of what was attached to the scope, was $2.00.

http://i479.photobucket.com/albums/rr153/corben1_photo/M1CGHringmount001.jpg