ROTC Summer Camp, Fort Sill, 1970

[Griff Murphey]

Some might question whether this story will be of interest to many people or whether it even qualifies as a "service life" story but I hope it will jog some others' memories and bring forth a few smiles.
After 3 years of high school and 3 years' college ROTC I had signed my advanced contract, meaning I had promised to go in the Army as an officer if I was offered a commission, or would go in as enlisted if I dropped out. The main reason was that I saw myself as perhaps a young Gregory Peck on Porkchop Hill. Secondarily, I had a draft lottery number of 24.
My college, Trinity University in San Antonio, had a 400 man corps due to being a land grant college, requiring two years' ROTC for all males. There were no women cadets, except one free spirit who took one year of ROTC on a lark, wearing the professor of military science's wife's WW2 WAC uniform (since the Army provided no female uniforms at that time for ROTC). As far as I could tell there was no major effort to get us physically ready for camp, but we were taken to Camp Bullis and fired Trainfire where I shot Expert with the M-14. There was also a big "Field Problem" which was really an orchestrated series of sham battles. The most interesting part was that two of my Fraternity Brothers in Pershing Rifles rented a Cessna 172 and were "air support" for our counterguerilla group. As the 172 came over to "bomb" with flour bombs you could hear the stall warning screaming about 100 feet overhead!
Fort Sill had the ROTC camp, Camp Eagle, at the far west of the post just off Cache Road. There were two Brigades in separate camps. Cadet issue was like I imagine regular basic training issue is. We were quartered in squad tents on gravel; each man had a cot and a plywood foot locker. At the end of the company street was a thunderbox style latrine. Wash stands had faucets at each station, and cut-outs for your steel-pot M-1 helmet to use as a sink. You always wore that helmet, almost never the baseball cap.
Reville was 0430 each morning. The first morning everybody showed up in spit-shined boots, starched fatigue pants; and we were led in fairly (moderately) challenging calisthenics; let's say 20 pushups, 20 squat thrusts, etc.. We then double-timed, as a platoon, around the brigade area which was about a mile run. This routine was always led by a cadet, not a cadre officer or NCO. After about the first five days, the cadet platoon leader of the day, as we rounded the corner where trees masked us from the company area, ordered "ROUTE STEP...HARCH!" and we "walked the track" so to speak, until we were in sight of the company area, whence double-time would resume.
We all had M-14s which appeared new, with the brown fiberglass stocks. Beautiful rifles! When it came time to shoot for record on Trainfire, I got every target from 200-350M. The close ones were so shot-up they would not fall. I only made sharpshooter, but it was like the #2 score in the platoon. Mitch, one of our cadets, contrived to blow his M-14 up by loading a 7.62 blank with powder scrounged out of other blanks, so that it was full of powder right up to the end of the case/fake bullet tip, inserting a twig "...to hold the powder in..." and topped off this pipe bomb with a BFA. In spite of my stern warnings, he proceeded to fire his rifle on night raid patrol. At the rally point, he was holding the three main groups of the rifle. Later, in the daylight, it was apparent the lower third of the bolt face and an inch back had been blown apart. The action was of course frozen. The BFA and magazine disappeared in the darkness.... and he was somewhat shrapneled on his left forearm. Nobody ratted on him and I heard they condemned a whole lot of blank ammo over that.
We generally had our rifles wherever we went and they would be stacked in formation while we went into bleachers, etc. Subjects were widely ranging over all of the necessary military skills from tactics, artillery, land navigation, casualty care, and so-on. Weapons we fired were the M-14, M-16 M1911, M-79, M72 LAW, 81 mm Mortar, 105mm Howitzer in direct and indirect fire, 106mm recoilless rifle, .50 spotting rifle, 90mm recoilless rifle, M-26 hand frag, and the .50 Browning MG and M-73 Coax gun on the M-48 tank. Couple of funny stories, Cadet Moses from Prairie View A&M was firing his .45. With each shot the bullets began striking the ground ever closer to Cadet Moses. When one dug up the dirt five feet in front of him, an Army NCO came up and asked, "CUH-DE-YUT! ARE YOU EVEN AIMIN' AT THET TAR-GEYUT!??" I was the worst grenade thrower in the outfit, so the TAC officer thought he should put an NCO in my grenade pit with me. He was an SFC, obviously well briefed about my short throws "like a girl," and was obviously real nervous about me throwing the grenade but I wasn't scared and I felt like I did OK. AFTER it went off I wanted to see where it had gone off so I raised my head to see, which of course you were not supposed to do. I can promise you that SFC may have taken about 6" off my height when he compressed me back into that pit.
The only thing I fired that scared me was that 90. The backblast and front blast is intense and you are right down there with it.
We also did land navigation, fire direction centers, and the gas tent, but this was before CBR suits, thankfully. I did good on the gas tent; it surprised me there are always people who panic and get get snot dripping asphyxiated.
It was hot as hades. They gave us salt tablets, but water could be problematic. We were issued two canteens. "Water discipline" was no longer spoken of, but was in fact enforced. Two guys in the squad had extra two quart canteens; one was the Vietnam issue bladder one, and one was an aluminum one with "indian blanket" motif. This water we called the "squad reserve" and anybody that got in trouble could get some of that if they had too. Water was usually out of water buffalo trailers or in Lister bags and it was full of chlorine; I guess they poured jugs of Clorox in it, and it usually burned going down. Sometimes the mess cooks made iced tea or Kool-aid with the chorix-water. MMMmmmm. Kool aid that BURNED going down!
We sweated so much we had encrustations of dried, white salt on our green fatigues. Everyday.
We had a great mess sergeant, an old black master sergeant. His mess truck was an old WW2 style with the oval cut outs instead of doors and the short, curved hood. One night at 3AM wnen we were tactical, out in the field,I was awakened by these bright lights in my eyes and he almost drove over me with that truck.
Delta Company was next door. Delta was hard ass and had a Ranger Tac Officer. Delta was always getting pssed at us for pssing in the drainage trenches at night rather than taking the 200m walk to the latrine. One night matters came to a head and both sides unfolded e-tools and we almost had the massacre of Camp Eagle. The TAC officers managed to quiet it down.
If you were not sleeping out in the field you could enjoy the beer tent. A 3.2% Coors tallboy was like 75 cents. The Prairie View A&M boys dominated the Juke box and to this day hearing Band of Gold or any of the Supremes tunes of the day takes me right back. One time I got waylaid by the hard-ass Ranger TAC of Delta Company. He proceeded to give me an army version of Gunny Ermy's dressing down of Gomer Pyle in FMJ, although my offense was being chubby and drinking beer, not eating jelly doughnuts. When it got dark, about 9:00, they ran movies. The movies ran until 1 A.M. With a 4:30 revellie, I could not stay up past about 10, but some did.
One guy, Moscowitz, fell asleep riding in a deuce and a half and as his head lolled back his helmet fell off and out of the truck. The very next deuce-and-a-half hit it and dinked it in about 1/3 of the way in. He got in more trouble than the guy who blew up the M-14, and was forced to wear the thing for a week.
Our winner of the "Outstanding Cadet" award was an ex-Marine with a chest full of Vietnam ribbons, two jump badges, and a 28" waist.
The culmination of our field training was being helicoptered-in to the Vietnam Village, "Ton Hoa." I rode a pod under a CH-54 Skycrane. We were given typical Vietnam kill-the-VC-but-don't-hurt-the-villagers-or-popular-forces orders. I was holding my M-14 on one conical-hatted black pajama guy. He spun around with a M-16 on full auto and "cut me in half" - with blanks. After THAT and after the classes on toe-poppers, punji stakes, Malayan gates, and what today we call IED's, I sort of lost the last images I had of myself as a glorious Infantry platoon officer and dental school started looking a lot "more better" to me.
By the way the enlisted troops that ran most of the courses were Spec 4's and buck sergeants just back from Vietnam. One of them spotted the one M-14 in our squad with a selector when we were running squad tactics. His eyes got as big as saucers and a big grin came over his face. He grabbed that M-14 and the cadet's magazines, handed the cadet his clipboard, and joined in the "assault" just to rip off the rounds on full auto!
Although it was not basic training, nor advanced infantry training, it was an experience comparable to enlisted life; an experience I will never forget. When I was a Navy dental officer with the Marines 5 and a half years later, unexpectedly involved in the Vietnam evacuation, most of the hospital corpsmen thought I was ex-enlisted. I took that as a great compliment and I credit my Army ROTC time - and in particular - Fort Sill - for that!

[superjake]

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[Michaelp]

Sounds like you got some good out of that.

I was in a ROTC program before the lottery, but lost my deferment due to partying and had to enlist to beat the draft.
No regrets.

[m1ashooter]

Great story. My ROTC Summer Camp was at Vandenburg AFB, we slept in real buildings and usually boarded a bus to go anywhere.

[Michael Tompkins]

What a great story! I really enjoyed reading it. Mike

[semowasp]

The 1970 ROTC Ft. Sill experience is in stark contrast to that at Ft. Riley. We were expecting something similar based on the comments of those who had summered there in the Woodstock Year of '69. In fact I had my barber shave my head before reporting rather than let an Army hack take shears to it.

So, there we were on the first day, seated in a large field when the commanding general took the stage and notified us that his theory was that as we were soon to be officers, he intended to treat us as such. The first example, no short haircuts required. The rest of the 6 weeks passed similarly. We slept mostly in barracks with running water. On those few nights in the field, mobile showers were provided.

We had access to the old cavalry officer's club every night. Nearly destroyed it the first week-end when no leave was forthcoming. Was in Kansas City every weekend thereafter.

The guard was not mounted until 7pm. Those desiring a night on the town in Manhattan, KS, went to the POV lot before then, got their cars and left. Returning about 1am we parked on the officer quarter's streets, and returned the cars to the lot at 6pm the next evening when we had duty. Those with it the night before repeated the above in their turn.

All-in-all a very confusing 6 weeks, for which we had received little preparation. The fact we were not needed after graduation in 1971 may indicate that our general had some foreknowledge.

One point of interest. We had to sign our contracts the first day of class 1970, before the lottery in December. See the bit on "Betting on the lottery" at https://sites.google.com/site/westminstermemoriesformen/

I had to lobby hard to get 2 years of active duty. Strangely, I was back in Summer Camp in 1972, that time as part of the cadre. My primary duty was herding a bunch of student newspaper editors from eastern schools through two weeks of the process. Someone in Washington thought it might improve the public image on campus. Don't know about that, but it did improve cadet morale as the female dress was a T-shirt and jeans - nothing else. It rained all summer.

[Griff Murphey]

Wow that really was different. They treated us like privates. Cadre was tough, too. The only slack we got cut was the PT was a lot lighter than it could have been. A cadet could go to the Ft. Sill officers' club but it was about 15 miles away and nobody brought jackets and ties. Most of us just drank 3.2 beer in tallboys at the beer tent.

My memory could be faulty but I think the lottery came before I signed my contract. My senior year of college when it came time to sign to accept my commission. As I had been accepted to dental school, I asked, can I decline it? "No problem... We will order you to ACDU as a private in the Army Reserve..."

So I am in dental school, my 4 striper captain uncle asked me if I had considered the Navy...I said I thought I would LOVE the Navy but was an Army 2Lt... He said "Oh I can get you into the Navy,"

Fast forward to April, 1975, I am on the foc'sle of USS DUBUQUE LPD-8 with all of the BAS 1-4 corpsmen, heading to RVN; getting Vietnamese lessons from a USMC Gunny... Boy, I am thinking, "If i had stayed in the Army, I could be in Germany drinking beer with Frauleins..." Felt pretty dumb.... In retrospect, tho; glad I had the experience....

[Lee T.]

Funny how things I hadn't thought about for many years come flooding back to memory - I did my 6th Army summer camp at Ft. Lewis, WA in 1968. My school, Cal Poly, San Luis Obispo, was one of about 50 from all over the west, even as far as Ohio, organized into 2 brigades. Trinity (Texas) was one of them on the list, maybe they changed to Ft. Sill later on. Some of the guys had finished the 4 year academic program, apparently had previously deferred summer camp, and were commissioned the same day camp was finished. 8 weeks of what we called Basic Training for Gentlemen. HA!
In '68 of course the war was different than '70, TET ramped things up and there were thousands of BCT's and ACT's all over the base. You could tell the ACT's because they carried M16's - we had M14s as there weren't enough 16s produced yet for all traing. You could tell the ACT's were about to ship out because that's when they got them. Ft. Lewis was huge, we were housed in platoon bays of bunkbeds in 3 story concrete barracks. Most everywhere we went for daily training, except for our 3-day FTX, we were hauled in what we called 'cattle trucks'.......40 ft. enclosed trailers, no windows, just a rear ramp, with 4 long benches fore-and-aft. They were pulled by duce and 1/2's, and if the wind was wrong, the trailers filled up with diesel fumes. I think they used the trailers because typically is rains a lot up there, but during our time there it was pretty dry.

Once the daily routines settled in we got to know the pull-up bar outside the mess hall and Schlitz beer at the outdoor PX real well. On FTX's we got to know the 3 ft. high red ant hills that are everywhere in WA forests even better. Gotta say though, Washington forests are beautiful. A late-camp weekend pass spent in Olympia/Tumwater at the brewery wasn't bad either.
A couple things stick in my mind....on the day we had the "VC Village" leadership training (pretty close to what Griff described) about 100 educator visitors were in bleachers watching us - a big deal for the Army because they wanted to show the various school administrators the worth of getting college credit for the camp. So my platoon gets chosen for the leading unit into the village, and it was my day for being Platoon Leader. Guess I did OK, got some compliments from the Brigade CO afterwards, but like Griff, I was 'shot' and out of action after 20 minutes. The cadre playing the bad guys were just back from their tours in RVN, and really into making showing us college boys the facts of life. Another time they put on a platoon sized night live fire display to show effective fields of fire. OMG they burned up a LOT of tracer ammo that night!
All in all, a worthwhile experience, not quite on the level of combat infantry training, but a good exposure to most of it. Thanks for reminding me of it!

[edpm3]

Thanks for dredging some of those memories up. Actually it was a pretty satisfying experience. Indiantown Gap Military Reservation, PA in 1971. Very similar to your Ft Sill experience when it came to weapons, but it sounds like our PT was a lot harder and we only got one weekend pass at the three-week mark.

Although we were still using M14s back at school, we were issued M16A1s at camp. I was pleased to find how easy it was to hit targets with it. I also liked the lighter weight of the basic load, although I rarely got to enjoy it, since when not rotated into a squad or platoon leader position, I usually carried the M60.

When in garrison we stayed in two-story World War II barracks and there was plenty of beer at the various canteens (I think there was one in each of the four brigade areas). Spent a lot of time marching to the field, although we did sometimes get the cattle cars—stake-sided semi trailers with wooden benches running the length of the trailers. Air assault training was a thrill as we rode to the attack in Hueys driven by cowboy warrant officers just back from SEA who tried their level best to scare the piss out of us. Really enjoyed the Recondo training, especially rappelling, rope-bridge building, and my personal favorite, the slide for life. That felt great on a hot day. I also enjoyed the survival training, although I wasn't that crazy about the instructor (Ranger or Special Forces) who insisted on passing a rather large but non-venomous snake through the bleachers.

I seem to recall that all of our lane graders were 82nd Airborne enlisted and NCOs who delighted in tormenting the college boys. Can't say as I blame them. When it came to handling the various weapons systems, they knew their stuff.

[semowasp]

It's hard to rectify the differences in approach between camps that summer following Kent State. As a ROTC cadet from a very small backwater school with no ROTC budget, compared to the others we met there we were wholly unprepared. See "The rockets red glare, ..." at

https://sites.google.com/site/westminstermemoriesformen/ for some vignettes.

It is true that at the time I was dating the daughter of the commanding officer at Richards-Gebauer Air Force Base in KC, who I had escorted at the ROTC Ball. But, I can not believe he intervened on her behalf.

Whoever there is to thank, the fondest camp memories of most cadets that year will be of those who made it possible for them to spend weekends soliciting at the newly opened TWA stewardess school - the fabled Breech Academy - in Kansas City.

As for recollections of actual camp activity, I recall being pulled out of the gas tent line for bleeding, sun-burned lips. I also vividly remember a platoon or company maneuver through a field of the country's strategic hemp reserve for which Ft. Riley served as host. Everything but canteens was flying as college cadets picked their way through the 6 foot high growth, the objective forgotten. Not being a partaker, I've no idea whether it was worth loosing the contents of one's first aid pouch.

[blackhawknj]

I went through ROTC Advanced Camp at Fort Bragg in the Summer of 1975.I was "Prior Service" in the parlance of the day, having first enlisted in 1967. At the rifle range we were told "position optional", I went to the sitting position, the 82nd Airborne soldier there said
"Where'd you learn to shoot like that, Marine?", I replied "Fort Dix, Summer of 1967."
There were quite a few veterans there, hence we did not get all the "Caydet!" stuff.
First coed ROTC camp IIRC, they were in a separate barracks, though we trained together. Only 1 or 2 lookers, the rest pretty much dogs.
Boiling hot summer, several 100 degree days. One time at the range a real downpour, we gathered in the commo tent-then lighting hit the tentpole and wire. One of the girls let out a scream that should have been recorded for Hollywood, I went out the side of the tent like a cartoon character.
I had signed up for ROTC but had never been properly discharged from the Reserves. I received my E-7 stripes while I was there, the Sergeant Major insisted on pinning them on me in a formal ceremony, wore them for about 5 minutes.

[Griff Murphey]

Making E-7 in 8 years is damn good.

[tayson123]

ROTC Academic Summer Camps (http://www.studenteducationprograms.com/summer-camps) has the ability to teach young people about responsibility, care and concern for others, teamwork, social skills and values. Every parent wants to teach such things to their children and a military summer camp is the perfect place for kids to have fun but come home a fitter and better individual. Visit our blog site to get more information.


Wow it sounds so tempting to join
Is this only a military camp or there is any other activities also like games, hiking etc and how much is the fees for this summer camp. Please let me know
Thanks in advance

[Griff Murphey]

Go to college, sign up for Army ROTC. At the end of your sophomore year, if you can pass the physical and have good grades, you will be offered to continue to the advanced course. Of course you sign a contract to serve as an Army officer if you successfully graduate from college. If your grades and ROTC scores are good enough you may qualify for a scholarship to pay for some or all of your university education. My understanding is that all of the Army Advanced Camp is now done at Fort Lewis, Washington. No fees, it's all free. If you enjoy games like firing artillery, rifles, pistols, throwing grenades, crawling in mud under barbed wire while machine guns fire one meter over your head, and masking in a tent full of tear gas, big fun awaits. And hikes! Oh my the friendly sergeants will get you started before it gets light. Best part is the taxpayers pay for it all. You even come home with a paycheck.. My experience was 46 years ago and very hot. I hear Fort Lewis is a bit cool and damp.

As far as Junior ROTC summer camps for high school students, to my knowledge they were discontinued about the time of the Vietnam War due to the pressure of wartime. Those were comparable to college ROTC in terms of being a fairly serious simulation of Army life. Usually they did not involve crew served weapons and focused much more on drill and ceremonies. The Army did charge for those summer camps. There was a summer camp for all of the Junior ROTC cadets from Fort Worth and Dallas at Fort Wolters in Mineral Wells. Dallas would send a special train to Mineral Wells and the cadets would march from the railroad station to Fort Wolters behind their band.

There may be some military schools grades ~7-12 offering what you are looking for, if you are the age I think you are... unless this is a joke.

[DugwayDuke]

Some might question whether this story will be of interest to many people or whether it even qualifies as a "service life" story but I hope it will jog some others' memories and bring forth a few smiles.
<snip>
Although it was not basic training, nor advanced infantry training, it was an experience comparable to enlisted life; an experience I will never forget. When I was a Navy dental officer with the Marines 5 and a half years later, unexpectedly involved in the Vietnam evacuation, most of the hospital corpsmen thought I was ex-enlisted. I took that as a great compliment and I credit my Army ROTC time - and in particular - Fort Sill - for that!

Thought I would throw in a few comments. (BTW, my first post. I joined just to add these comments.)

Your post brought back many memories. In fact, I found this post while searching for information on summer camp at Fort Sill.

You see, I did my ROTC camp at the all inclusive resort of Camp Eagle, Fort Sill as well. I was there in 1969 with 2nd Bde, Alpha Four. I was a student at the University Of Oklahoma. BTW, as I recall, this was probably the last of the big summer camps. The first draft lottery was held after this camp and enrollment in ROTC dropped precipitously. I'm thinking there was something approaching 2000 cadets there.

My reminisces are very similar to yours. Nothing changed from my time there in 1969 to your time in 1970. Here goes.

First, let me remark upon comments about being treated like enlisted versus other camps where you were treated like officers. On the next to the last day of camp, our senior company level tac (he was a LTC while the platoon tacs were mostly O4s) told us that it had been the intent of this camp to teach us what it was like to be enlisted and that governed a lot of the way things happened. For example, we had to turn in our car keys to the 1st and could only get them back for weekend passes (we got two).

Our training really wasn't much too different from yours so I'll just talk about a few of the more memorial events of 1970.

Camp life started with two days of pulling weeds. The cadre had nothing else to do with us while we waited for everyone to finish in-processing so we pulled the weeds poking there way through the gravel surrounding our GP medium tents. In-processing took place back on the main post. They examined your orders, you signed in, got a complimentary haircut, registered your car, and drew your TA-50. Then they gave you a strip map showing the way to Camp Eagle. Once you arrived there, you reported to your tac, had a brief interview, were told to stow your gear (they gave you a drawing of what went where), and were told to start pulling weeds.

Once every one was checked in, we had our first training exercise. The entire brigade put all the TA-50 back in their duffle bags and formed into one long column. We did the duffle bag drag for about two miles to this large field where the companies deployed into bivouac. This took about an hour. We were then told to erect our tents and layout our gear for inspection. The rest of the afternoon was spent rearranging things following repeated changes in how things should be done. Learned a lot from this experience. Never act on any directions until it's clear that it's too late to change anything. Then follow the last set of orders you received.

Actually, I chose to shoot the 90MM. I watched the demonstrations of the 106 and the 90 and decided neither looked particularly attractive. I decided that the best choice was the one that minimized the amount of time you had to be near the recoilless rifles. The 106 had a four man crew so you wear next to it for four firings. The 90 only had a two man crew so you only had to be next to it for two firings. Easy choice there. Firing the 90 was one of my triumphant experiences. We were firing at a line of junk cars almost a klick away. My buddy fired first and his round hit just short of the line. We carefully exchanged places so not to disturb the aim. I slid into place and oh, so carefully, nudged the aim point just a skosh higher. Hit the right front door post of a 60 model chevy. Doors, hoods, trunk cover, all went flying. Loved it. Big cheers from my fellow cadets too. I was a hero.

I noticed you didn't mention the artillery firepower shoot. We had a great one on a Saturday morning. The shoot itself was impressive since the entire III Corps artillery participated. IIRC, there were something like 160 105s firing, over a hundred 155, some 8 inch and a smattering of 175. The time on targets were impressive. It was this day that we really learned what it was to be second class citizens. I'm going to describe in detail how this happened because the ending was so enjoyable.

We were loaded on buses without breakfast and transported almost back to main post where we were herded into some large bleachers to watch the shoot. We sat there for over 90 minutes. Finally one last bus showed up and about 20 West Point Cadets got off and were seated in the front row center seats reserved for them. Then the CG, Fort Sill arrived and began his speech. He began by talking about how much he had enjoyed having breakfast with them at the Officers Club that morning. (Yes, we'd been sitting there for over almost two hours so the Pointers could finish their wonderful OClub breakfast with the CG.) Then the CG began to explain to the Pointers how great a career they would have if they choose the Artillery as their branch (they were on the tour were they decided which branch they would be in). Must have taken him 20 or 30 minutes describing how wonderful it was to be a Pointer in the Field Artillery. Not once did he mention the 2000 or so ROTC cadets in attendance or how much we would enjoy being in the artillery. That's when I learned what it's like to be treated like a 2nd class citizen.

Following the shoot, the CG once again took center stage and gave one last brief speech about Pointers in the Field Artillery. At this point, he announced that the final event would be the firing of the Honest John Rocket. He stated that two cadets would be chosen to fire the rocket. One would give the count-down and the other would push the fire button. He said that every ones name had been placed in a hat and a selected cadet would draw forth the two lucky names. At that point, he did mention that there were 2000 ROTC cadets there too and he wanted to assure us that our names were also in the hat and that we had an equal chance of being chosen. Boy, that was one big hat, wan't it? Wonder who wrote out all those names.

Well, you know where this is going. "Surprise, Surprise, Surprise" as Gomer Pyle used to say. Both names drawn were West Pointers. Do the math. What are the odds of both names come from only the West Pointers? Now here comes the fun stuff and the whole purpose for all this detail. To the delight of the assembled ROTC cadets, the West Pointers screwed it up. The Rocket flew off the rail, traveled about two klicks down range where it began to tumble and blew apart. The assembled ROTC cadets erupted in cheers and comments upon the competence of West Pointers. It was so loud the CG threatened to send in the MPs to calm us down. Loved it. Well worth missing breakfast. That's when I learned how sweet pack back can be.

Some one mentioned the great cooks they had. Ours were the worst cooks I've seen in the military. All were just back from Nam and were being released after our camp. They were not highly motivated. Our head cook was promoted to PFC about half way through camp. I later learned he'd been busted a couple of times before so making PFC wasn't that big a deal for him. After a few days, one of the Tac chewed him out for not putting on his new stripes. He put them on with a magic marker. It was hit or miss if they would show up for breakfast. A couple of times we had to open the cook tent ourselves and at least get out some cereal.

The gas tent. We were told that we would, one at a time, advance to the gas NCO at the exit to the tent. We would remove our mask, tell him our name, school, and social security number and then we would be allowed to leave. I nearly panicked when I realized I couldn't remember my SSN. Then I realized the Gas NCO didn't know it either so when it came my turn, I made one up. That taught me the power of a well orchestrated bluff.

Oh, the heat. It was over 100 by 10 AM every morning. Our PT program began in earnest when we were on the rifle range. We started afternoon runs on the hard stand. No easy build up, just started running. Each day there a few more cadets in the aid tent from heat exhaustion. This all culminated when the Sr. Tac lost out on a bet with another Sr. Tac as to whose company would have more experts on the qualification range. Our Tac lost so he force marched us back to bivouac. Must have been about 1400 in the afternoon and the temps had to be over 105 or so. Put about fifty cadets in the aid tent. (We later learned that the other company got to grade their own qualification, we didn't.)

The next day, we received our own dedicated medic. I heard the new medic explain to the Tacs that he had been sent to our company because the hospital commander was concerned by our rate of heat casualties. The new medic said the hospital commander had sent him to ensure that all post regulations and training policies were to be strictly enforced in our company. The medic explained to our Tacs that he could, upon the authority granted him by the post commander, modify, change, or cancel any training. The medic was quite respectful but he made it clear that was the way things were. The medic accompanied us on all our training and it changed significantly from that point on. We still ran, probably ran more, but the runs were in the morning. That's when I learned that some lower ranking EM can, indeed, move mountains.

I spent eight years on active duty finally retiring after another 14 in the National Guard.

[royholl3]

I was there the same summer as DugwayDuke. He is telling it like it was. I especially remember the Honest John rocket debacle; what a hoot.

The truly memorable part of my time at Camp Eagle was my Tac officer, Capt. James Hallums, USMA class of '66, airborne ranger infantry, combat veteran, piss-and-vinegar all the way. You might want to Google his name. He was eventually run out of the Army after he tried to shape up the leadership department at West Point. Capt. Hallums in 1969 also happened to be the Commandant of Cadets at my own school. Since I was the only cadet from my school who was in his platoon, he made sure no one got the idea I was receiving favorable treatment. He was rough on me until we went to the rifle range to qualify (with the M-14 rifle). Somehow I fired 61 to qualify as an expert. From then on, Capt. Hallums was a lot nicer to me. He was even tolerant of the fact that my branch was not going to be infantry, but armor, saying, "it's a ground-gaining arm."

Another incident I recall was a day we were in the field, when it began to rain. Another cadet in our platoon, Herb Mang, said to me, "Did you ever notice how, when it rains, Capt. Hallums doesn't get wet?" It was true.

[Griff Murphey]

Dugway, enjoyed your post! A couple of our guys were at the big O club at the main post when the West Pointers arrived. They came back walking down the company street twirling gray hats - probably just stole them still cool! You could get a pass to go to the O club on the post but I never did - it was about a 30 mile round trip.

Our cadet guide has a picture of Westy addressing the cadets. I always assumed he had been there in 1969. Did you get to see Westmoreland?

We did not have the firepower demonstration in 1970. Maybe ammo shortage due to the war? Maybe they shot it just for the old Gray Line.

I did see it when I was a Junior ROTC cadet in the summer of 1966. A friend of mine and I went at the suggestion of our active army SSgt commandant; in those days the high school ROTC cadre sergeants were ACDU and their summer job was supporting the college summer camps. We wore our Junior ROTC fatigue uniforms which had no US ARMY and an ROTC patch with name tape and we wore the full size sewn on hi viz nco stripes. My friend was a big burly Mexican guy who was corps sergeant major, played the part well; and I was an SFC. After we had been at the firepower demonstration for a few minutes we became aware that the enlisted men sitting next to us were treating us with great deference. We were 17! They thought we were real.

The Honest John had a countdown and "Fire!" - Nuthin... A few more tries then the announcement that due to technical
difficulties the Honest John would not be fired. Spectators were encouraged to look at the equipment on display but cautioned to "stay clear of the rear of the Honest John launcher." Recently told this story to an infantry officer and he laughed and said that the Honest John was a real joke and a totally unreliable weapon, frequently misfiring or malfunctioning.

[DugwayDuke]

Dugway, enjoyed your post! A couple of our guys were at the big O club at the main post when the West Pointers arrived. They came back walking down the company street twirling gray hats - probably just stole them still cool! You could get a pass to go to the O club on the post but I never did - it was about a 30 mile round trip.

Our cadet guide has a picture of Westy addressing the cadets. I always assumed he had been there in 1969. Did you get to see Westmoreland?

We did not have the firepower demonstration in 1970. Maybe ammo shortage due to the war? Maybe they shot it just for the old Gray Line.

I did see it when I was a Junior ROTC cadet in the summer of 1966. A friend of mine and I went at the suggestion of our active army SSgt commandant; in those days the high school ROTC cadre sergeants were ACDU and their summer job was supporting the college summer camps. We wore our Junior ROTC fatigue uniforms which had no US ARMY and an ROTC patch with name tape and we wore the full size sewn on hi viz nco stripes. My friend was a big burly Mexican guy who was corps sergeant major, played the part well; and I was an SFC. After we had been at the firepower demonstration for a few minutes we became aware that the enlisted men sitting next to us were treating us with great deference. We were 17! They thought we were real.

The Honest John had a countdown and "Fire!" - Nuthin... A few more tries then the announcement that due to technical
difficulties the Honest John would not be fired. Spectators were encouraged to look at the equipment on display but cautioned to "stay clear of the rear of the Honest John launcher." Recently told this story to an infantry officer and he laughed and said that the Honest John was a real joke and a totally unreliable weapon, frequently misfiring or malfunctioning.

The only time we saw the Officer's Club was when we rode past it on the way to some training or other. Kind of like the golf course. We got this brochure about what to expect at summer camp. One of the items said we should be sure to bring our golf clubs. We were coming back from the rifle range, riding in a 'cattle truck' when someone shouted out: "Hey guys, there's the golf course. Anyone bring their clubs."

We were pretty much confined to Camp Eagle. In the second week, they had us turn our car keys over to the cadre. (Some cadet had gone to Cache for a beer. So the solution was take our keys.) We got two weekend passes. I only got one. The Tac Officer told me to do something and I did. He pulled my pass because I didn't report back that I'd done it.

It was my understanding that the artillery shoot was a monthly event, more of a publicity thing than for training.

About ammo shortages. I was commissioned Infantry and attended IOBC in 1971 at Benning. At summer camp, they would give us 10 rounds for field exercise. At Benning we were issues so many rounds that we fired them as fast as we could so we wouldn't have to lug them around. For example, I was carrying the gun on a night ambush. I opened the ambush with a 200 round burst. I had linked 3 belts back to back. My assistant stood up and held the belt off the ground to keep it from breaking. It didn't accomplish much. They re-supplied us on the next objective with another 500 rounds.

[Griff Murphey]

Just curious, did you do much active duty? Most of my commissioning class either went to branch school and then to the reserves or were put in inactive reserve status for a few years then discharged.

You were a year ahead of me, you may have gone to Vietnam as a 2LT, Inf.

In 1975 I was sitting in the Wardroom of USS OKINAWA LPH-3 in Hong Kong Harbor I had been on the Vietnam and Cambodia evacuations with BLT 1-4 as their dental officer. The Captain comes on the 1MC and informs us that we are taking on a load of NROTC cadets from Texas A&M on their "summer cruise" and "...they are midshipman meaning they are officers and WILL BE TREATED AS SUCH!"

I was like "What is THIS CRAP!?!?"

[DugwayDuke]

Just curious, did you do much active duty? Most of my commissioning class either went to branch school and then to the reserves or were put in inactive reserve status for a few years then discharged.

You were a year ahead of me, you may have gone to Vietnam as a 2LT, Inf.

In 1975 I was sitting in the Wardroom of USS OKINAWA LPH-3 in Hong Kong Harbor I had been on the Vietnam and Cambodia evacuations with BLT 1-4 as their dental officer. The Captain comes on the 1MC and informs us that we are taking on a load of NROTC cadets from Texas A&M on their "summer cruise" and "...they are midshipman meaning they are officers and WILL BE TREATED AS SUCH!"

I was like "What is THIS CRAP!?!?"

I had an eclectic career. I was commissioned Infantry in May 70. That summer we were offered an opportunity to forgo active duty if we joined a reserve or national guard unit. At first, I joined the 4003rd Garrison Detachment. They transferred me to the Ordnance Corps. The Corps had no slots for active duty for training. Most of my job interviews were over once I told them I had a 90 day obligation for training. I shopped around and found a unit that could get me a training slot. I transferred to the 95th Infantry Division (Training) who transferred me back to the Infantry and I went to IOBC in Feb 71. I enjoyed IOBC and extended to Voluntary Indefinite status.

When I in-processed at Fort Hood, I was asked if I knew anything about rockets and missiles. I told them I had an aerospace engineering degree and two weeks later I was commanding the Corps Guided Missile Maintenance Detachment. The unit was authorized a Major, Captain, and Lt. About three months later, a qualified Ordnance Captain took command and I was reassigned as the Shop Officer. Service with this unit was a three year stabilized tour so I never saw Vietnam.

I accepted a branch transfer to the Ordnance Corps in 1973 and was sent to the Missile Maintenance Officers Course at Redstone Arsenal to learn all about the jobs I'd been doing for the last three years. After a short tour with the 2ID in Korea, I returned to Redstone where I spent the next three years in a project office developing missile systems. In 1978 I left active duty for a civil service job in another project office. I also joined the 279th Signal Battalion of the Alabama National Guard where I commanded a signal unit. After a couple of years, I branch transferred to the Signal Corps. I retired in 1992 from the NG.

Summarizing: I served eight years on active duty and another 14 in the guard. I spent my civilian career designing or manufacturing rockets and missiles. I'm finally retired last year. I had four branch transfers. I commanded an Ordnance unit as an Infantry officer. I commanded a Signal company as an Ordnance Officer. I spent about half my career serving in positions that I was not, technically, qualified for.

We had a bunch of Aggies at Camp Eagle. Some were very good guys. A very large fraction were super troopers who went out of their way to impress the cadre. They ganged together to give each other high ratings on the peer reviews.

[Griff Murphey]

Very interesting and congrats on a great career.

Aggies make pretty damn good military men and have a great deal of highly admirable war fighting tradition. Like VMI it is rated as a service academy not just a university with ROTC.

However, there is a big tradition of hazing which I am not sure they have shaken yet.

[DugwayDuke]

Very interesting and congrats on a great career.

Aggies make pretty damn good military men and have a great deal of highly admirable war fighting tradition. Like VMI it is rated as a service academy not just a university with ROTC.

However, there is a big tradition of hazing which I am not sure they have shaken yet.

I just figured something out about the differences between Summer Camp 1969 and those that followed. In 1969, we were treated like dirt. We didn't get to go to the O Club or anything like that. We weren't in barracks with running water, etc. In 1970, and afterwards, the Army realized that they needed to be nicer and kinder to the Cadets if they wanted to keep them. The first draft lottery was history. Time for a change.

I didn't go on active duty until 1971. I attended Infantry Officer's Basic Course (IOBC 18-71). We were the group to have our entire IOBC under the nicer and kinder.

Previous to our class, every morning IOBC began at 0530 with a roll call assembly. Everyone was marched into the mess hall for breakfast. After breakfast, another roll call, and then the one mile run to Infantry Hall for classes. Run back to mess hall. Have lunch. Run back to Infantry Hall for more classes. After classes, run back to mess hall, have dinner, roll call and then dismissed about 1900. This was the schedule unless their were field problems or range time, etc. Five days a week. Saturday, roll call, breakfast, run to Infantry Hall, classes, run back to mess hall, lunch, roll call, dismissed.

Our class was more like college. You received a training schedule on Friday for the week following. If there were classes, you were given the building and a report time. Ranges, field exercises were the same as previous. Meals at the mess hall were optional which was nice if you had brought your wife and were living off post. No, none, not any Saturday classes. Unless there was a three day field problem (we had maybe three of those), no mandatory classes on Wednesday afternoon. There were optional classes where you could learn to drive an APC, things like that. It was my understanding that cutting out the back and forth runs alone was enough to cut out the Saturday and Wednesday afternoon classes.

[Griff Murphey]

3695736958369593696036961Some photos from the 1970 Album the Army produced