Rebluing part of a bayonet?

[IditarodJoe]

I recently purchased a low s/n 1905 bayonet (made in early 1906) that I am going to “restore”. The bayonet underwent the 1907 alterations and is in overall very good condition, except that at some point in its life the blade was shortened by three-quarters of an inch and the entire bayonet was plated (either chrome or nickle - I can’t tell the difference). At this point, it has no collector value, so I figure I can't hurt it too badly.

I have access to an aerospace metal finishing company that says they can remove the plating for me, but I’m not sure where to go from there. According to Brophy, the bayonet was niter blued to about 1/4 inch ahead of the crosspiece and the blade was polished bright metal.

Has anyone here had any experience with having “part of” a bayonet reblued?:icon_scratch:

Any advice or insight will be appreciated.

[JB White]

British blades were suspended by the blade and lowered into the solution. I would imagine something similar with US bayonets finished in that manner.

[IditarodJoe]

Thank you for that piece of information, JB. I've been looking for a good photo of an original early 1905 to determine how "crisp" or "sharp" the line is between the blued portion and the polished metal of the blade. I would think that simply suspending the bayonet over/in the bluing tank would result in a somewhat hazy boundry. If the originals have a sharp line betweeen the two areas, I would be inclined to think that some sort of masking or pre-coating of the bare metal was involved.

Does anyone have a good photo I could use as a reference?

[Bayonetman]

Here is one:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/bayonetman/Bayonets/Model%201905/1906Blue2.jpg

[Nick Riviezzo]

I really don't know anything about this subject but the logical conclusion,for me, is blue the whole bayo and polish/grind off what doesn't need to be there.That will give you the desired texture on the blade and a straight line of"departure"wouldn't it? Nick

[dave]

Do not take that 1/4" as written in stone. I have seen many that it is allot less. Mine is 1/16" and it is original 1906 RIA.

[IditarodJoe]

That's a great photo, bayonetman! Does that straight edge continue evenly around the upper and lower edges? The crispness of that boundry would seem to me to rule out the suspension approach in the bluing tank, as any motion of the surface of the bluing solution would make a more blurred transition.

I hadn't thought about Nick's suggestion. If my understanding is correct, for a very short time at the beginning of WWI the blades, as issued, were entirely blued. If the blades have previously been entirely blued and then the unwanted blue polished off, the elimination of the polishing step would have been a logical wartime expediant. How difficult would it be to polish off unwanted bluing?

Here's an interesting update. The bayonet is currently at the metal finishers being stripped. When I took it in, they told me that when "decorative chrome" is applied the common procedure is to first nickel plate the piece and then to apply chrome plating over the nickel. According to their expert, this was the case with my bayonet.

I should have the stripped parts back this week and will post "before and after" pictures of the result.

[Bayonetman]

Yes, the line of blue is consistent around the blade.

The width of the line of blue is not totally consistent, but remains very close with Springfield Armory being about 1/4 inch, and Rock Island being somewhat less, in the area of 1/16th to 3/32 inch. However, there are exceptions to both.

There has been a lot of discussion over the years as to how the bluing was done. The idea that they were blued overall and then the unwanted bluing was polished off has been discussed, and may well be correct. However, I have no definite information as to how this was done.

[Nick Riviezzo]

Again, coming up with"brainy ideas" that I know nothing about,would it be feasable to blue the whole thing and remove what and where you want with Naval Jelly?You could maybe mask your line with electrical tape to get a clean line.For sure I know nothing about bayos[except how to use one] but I'm trying to think of a shop[shadetree] procedure that would work for you. Nick

[Johnny P]

There were no blueing tanks when the SA and RIA bayonets were made. The two blueing types available at the time was rust blue (called browning), and niter blue which was a heat blue. The hot tank caustic blue did not come into general use until the 1930's.
The niter blue produces a beautiful blue, with the higher the polish of the metal, the brighter the blue. In the niter blueing the part is repeatedly dipped into a mixture of potassium of nitrate and oxide of manganese heated to 800 degrees F. It would have been easy enough to suspend the bayonet handle down into the mixture, as the process was probably done by hand, and then polish the blue back to a smooth line.
On the bayonet you can see that the polish line was not straight, and is lower on the right than on the left.

http://i38.tinypic.com/mihyza.jpg

[wsfbernie]

In my bayo collection, I have a 1917 dated SA to match my m1903 1917 dated rifle. I also have the older "two-tone" and newer
parkerized (1918) bayos. So far, I have only been able to find info saying the 1917 ONLY had a complete blue job. In fact, my 1917
unit is beautifully blue. Prior to 1917, the bayos were two toned and from 1918 on parkered. Most pictures of WWI show the bright
blades on the m1905 bayo being used by AEF. I have read that the parkering and bluing was done only to subdue the surface
brightness and not for metal protection.

[IditarodJoe]

My 1906 bayonet before stripping of the nickel-chrome plating

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y183/IditarodJoe/M1905%20bayonet/Bayonetentire01.jpg

and after

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y183/IditarodJoe/M1905%20bayonet/Bayonetandsmallparts02.jpg

I'm really pleased with the way it came out. :banana100: The "after" photo makes it look a little pitted, but it isn't at all . . . just smooth bare metal with a little coating of RIG. Now to get it reblued. I've contacted Johnson Small Arms in Northwood, NH. They advertise that they do nitre bluing. Has anyone here had any experience with them?

[JB White]

How do you plan to address the difference between the original aged and worn grips to a freshly blued finish?

[IditarodJoe]

Well JB . . .that there is a darned good question! Any suggestions? :icon_redface:

[IditarodJoe]

As I see it, I have three options:

1. I could buy a set of NOS (read "Chinese") walnut grips, replace the worn scabbard cover with a new reproduction cover, and have a new-looking "restoration" :eek:.

2. I could try to find out what well used 104 year old nitre bluing looks like and try to have it refinished to "look right" with the old grips and scabbard.

3. I could "rearsenal" it. My 1943 Garand came straight from a 1965 arsenal overhaul with the original, worn 1943 walnut lower handguard and a brand new, barely finished birch upper handguard. Those arsenal armorers didn't really care whether parts matched in terms of wear.

At some point, this bayonet has been shortened by 3/4 inch (my guess would be to restore a broken tip). It's been chromed, stripped, and will be refinished. It will never be a collector item. By the time I've finished messing with it, I could probably have bought an original one for about the same $$. So either I'm "a few rounds shy of a full clip" (likely) or it's just a labor of love.

What can I say . . . :icon_rolleyes:

[Johnny P]

The first thing is to tell your refinisher that the metal in the grip area was not highly polished to start with. With niter blue, the higher the polish the brighter the blue, and vice versa.

http://i53.tinypic.com/2v3ms88.jpg
http://i56.tinypic.com/es8d1t.jpg

[JB White]

Since it's going to be a totally refinished bayonet I'd go with the repro grips and a new repro scabbard. Keep the original grips and scabbard for what they are. Save them as spares or sell them as unaltered originals to collectors needing those pieces. Selling them would also help defray part of the cost of the reproduction parts.

[chuckindenver]

im far from an expert on edged weapons...however...i could just blue the handle end , it would look like the bayonets shown, and would be black oxide coated,{hots salts blue}
to add to this post...the examples pictured were blued then polished.. you can see the low spots and the color inside the lettering.
also,
if your bayonet was plated before, and that plating wasnt removed correctly, no matter how nice it looks,,the chrome you missed will show up..
the only way to remove nickle or chrome, is to have a plater reverse the polarities, and float the plating back off.

[jonnyo55]

Those repro grips are pretty ghastly looking...what on the original were sanded or scraped "troughs" in the grips have been reproduced as sharply cut, very even grooves in the repro. Not good. Were it mine, I'd take a round jeweler's file and VERY SLOWLY AND CAREFULLY recut the troughs. For some reason, a mania existed at some point to sand down those "rough" grips!

[Bayonetman]

The bluing on the Model 1905 bayonet was not niter blue, but browning (rust bluing). The following description is taken from United States Rifles and Machine Guns by Fred H. Colvin and Ethan Viall and published in 1917. The process described is as done in 1916. There is a section on the Model of 1905 bayonet that describes each step in its manufacture.

"OPERATION 39 - BROWNING GUARD AND TANG OF BLADE. Number of Operators-One. Description of Operation-Same as other brownings, except care is taken to keep the blade bright; same apparatus as in other browning operations."

As a further comment, the bayonet began to be blued overall in May 1917. At first the full polishing operations were done prior to browning, but fairly early on the third polish operation was dropped as unnecessary and time consuming. This resulted in a duller blue as the metal was not brought to such a high degree of smoothness as before. This duller blue is sometimes called "War Finish Blue". The Parker Process did not begin until late 1918. I have yet to find a record of exactly when the bayonets began to be Parkerized but almost all 1918 bayonets I have seen were browned, not Parkerized.