My 03a4 replica

[pelago]

My 03A4 replica
all vintage parts and pieces with exception of sling, it is a recreation, but all else from forties, started with a remington 1903A3, and a new still in cosmo barrel

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w57/pelago177/1903A4replica002.jpg

thing really shoots well also, and darn fun to put together

[Griff Murphey]

Very Nice!

[pelago]

Thanks,
next thing will be to have it all parkerized, and i might have the stock cartouches applied, the man that does it will also stamp in side the barrel channel that this is a repro, which of course it is and i have not a problem with that.......

[libertyman777]

Very nice. I love old school sniper rifles.

[devine308]

Nice rifle. I acquiered a Gibbs 1903A4 with the M73B1 small scope. It is a challange to shoot and a lot of fun. It wasn't that big of adjustment, since I shoot my Model 70 Targets with Unertal scopes out to 750-Yards. My upcomming project is to zero the 1903A4 for 500-Yards and shoot the steel at that distance with the small scope.
Devine 308
Woody

[pelago]

went to range today and after doing fifty rounds for break in and getting windage set up i went 25-50 then to 100 yards

not at all unhappy, and i am a terrible bench shooter, can not get comfortable, can not get stock in shoulder, just akward as hell... do not know what to do with left hand
but anyway this thing shoots!!!!http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w57/pelago177/1903A4replica001.jpg

the external windage adj is touchy and easy to go too far, i did

this is actually four rounds

the little white circle is a pastey , since the black is 1 1/2 moa, i needed the white to put cross hair on

think i have a shooter!!!!, but the steel but plate in bench kicked my ass

[Art]

If you didn't like the way that kicked try it with an "S" stock. You'll hate that.

Beautiful rifle and obviously a great shooter by the way. Congratulations!!

[Marine A5 Sniper Rifle]

Nice shooting, regardless of what rifle.

Jim

[pelago]

thanks for the compliment, however it was more rifle than me, i am not comfortable shooting from a bench, like to get that down, However the thing does shoot, i was using GI case 168g hpbt smk imr 4064 and winchester primers,,, plan on shooting this thing at the cmp eastern sniper match

got to learn the scope, started at mechanical zero and put on 21 clicks to hold that group, and this is 100 yards, got to work it out to 600 yards

[Marine A5 Sniper Rifle]

You are going to run out of clicks!

Jim

[pelago]

i was thinking that also, when base put on, it was recommended to put a shim under front. been thinking that for 600 that might be a issue

[bruce]

Shim the front. You will do just fine.

[pelago]

what i know for sure now

there are two shims under front base between base and receiver, combined thickness is .020, each one is .010..........

about 85 total clicks from zero up, might be a couple more, but not going to force the issue to find out

with shims in place i need 21 clicks to hit at 100 yards

but what is the adj, 1/4 moa or 1 moa, called parsons scope repair and (lyman recommended) and he was just not sure....

took shims out and will reshoot on monday

my normal come up for 308 and 223 is
4 1/2 moa for 200
9 moa for 300
20 moa for 600

use this for three rifles and they put it in black for silghters

[jgaynor]

Is that an Alaskan you have mounted? If so the clicks are supposed to be 1" @ 100 yards. A4's bases seem to have been routinely shimmed during manufature and targeting. Then again virtually all of them were equipped with M73B1's (or one of the variants). The goal was to have the A4 w/m73B1 usable up to 1000 yards :icon_rolleyes: with the internal adjustments.

Regards,

JIm

[pelago]

it is a 40's vintage alaskan, and i called lyman and was directed to parsons scope repair and i talked to them and they are just not sure if it is in fact 1 moa or 1/4 moa

if it is 1 moa then 85 minutes available would not be too far off for 1000 yards, but not with .020 shim in front. i doubt if i will ever shoot it at 1000 yards, i do have a place to shoot 1000 yards, but do i want to shoot a A4 at 1000, but probably will shoot it at 600 at the cmp games

[Match223]

The Lyman Alaskan is a 1 moa adjustment scope, when I adjusted it from 300 to 600 at Butner in the spring I went up 12 clicks (Minutes) and was in the black.

[pelago]

what was your 300 setting??

ya know i wondered about that, not sure if 1944 shooting with hunting type scopes worried about 1`/4 moa adjustments..

l am not sure what .020 shim thickness did to overall group, but they are now removed and we shall see

have a 48" high target backing, going to put a 1 MOA cross about 2/3 up from bottem, then a magic marker line from top to bottom, then go to mech zero at 25 yards and let fly, then work it back to 100 yards

be interesting

[Match223]

I went to Butner all I had was a 100 yd zero, I went up 6 (6 min) clicks to start my sighters @ 300, added some elevation and wind after the first shot but was in the ten / X before the 6 sighters were finished. Then it was 12 up (12 min) from 300 to 600 with adjustments to get it to the 10 ring. It will definately get you close.

[pelago]

cool!!

i shot a russian nagant and it was not mine, i shot with a young man named robert. i had mine, but it had serious trigger issues (took two men and a boy to pull trigger, probably ten lb) was quite surprised at how i did, 142/10 for the 600, took some getting used to it cold at the three hundred

okay, now for the ammo, what were you using, i am using lake city case, winch primer, 168gr hpbt smk
48 gr 3064

i wonder how they will modify the 'match', i did not like the 'group' sighters, and that did not really allow for two shooters?? liked the team aspect of it though, but i enjoyed myself

[Match223]

My team member and I had enough of the Hornady Garand ammo left over from Perry last year to get us thru the match, the original Rem barrel liked it. I liked the format, I had shot ot at 100 yards to get the zero so my teammate shot the sighters (there is no way both shooters can shoot sighters at either stage) and I gave him corrections with the spotting scope.
I was on the little end, I was shooting next to a USMC Sniper 1903 and a 1903A4, the guys we scored for shot a Mosin on our point.
The only part that I didn't like was the 600 yard walk.
I don't have a clue what they might change, as long as they keep it fun I'm in.

Gary

[pelago]

i wonder if it wasn't you that scored for us?? we had a russian, and my last round was a squib or something went way wrong with it but our score keepers also shot a a4 and we were on the little end, i shot with a young man named robert, big kid, but only 14, real nice young man, we were shooting factory ammo

i did not like the fact that the team had to shoot one rifle, or rather the way it was set up you had to shoot same rifle

and i agree just make it fun, i enjoyed it

[Match223]

I think that was me, the young shooters dad was helping your team with the spotting scope. Your Mosin went down with a scope problem right at the start and you both used the same rifle for the rest of the match.
I was in the pits on your last relay and I think the last round was off the mark.
The 03A4gery I had was built on a Remington 1903 receiver with a Lyman Alaskan on it, I remember you talking about building one for next year and it sounds like you succeeded. I finished the build a week before we left TN for NC and the finish was still wet.

Gary

[pelago]

yup. that was us, the last shot sort of went "small bang, wierd heat trail, no idea where it went" But, Robert said "what in the hell was that, the vapor trail was in a circle??"

but all in all i was surprised at how the russian did. had some scope issues i inadvertantly got off windage, (talk about crude) but once got in in the groove it liked the ten ring

but i am really looking forward to the 03A4 next spring

i will shoot it tomorrow and do some more scope sight adj, i think with the shims gone i will have plenty of elevation adj, and i was impressed with the first go around

[Match223]

Dang it's a small world, you were gone by the time I made the 600 yd walk back, your first name starts with an I (it was on the back of your coat I think), is Robert shooting with you next year?
I just finished a second 1903A4gery and will be working out the kinks next week, I will have one zeroed for 300 yds and one zeroed for 600 yards, I used a Remington 1903A3 for this one. I'll be hand loading for next spring, thinking of using Serria 175's.
If you still don't have enough elevation put the shim in the rear at the dovetail.
You will find the Springfield much more comfortable to shoot than the Russian due to the low scope.

Gary

[pelago]

cool, still wonder what happened to the last round, it was kind of a bang/pffffft sound and Bob looking in scope said "what the heck, thing corkscrewed down range" corkscrewed to oblivion i guess, but it was still fun,

I wonder if it will become a fixture for the games, hope so

but as i said i was surptised at how well the russian did, i had to put a glove on the stock for my cheek to rest on, damn scope so high, but could hit the ten ring with it, but dont touch it once its there

My A4 coming along fine, have you thought of parkerizing yours, I am thiniking of Issac in south carolina
been told he does superb work, bit slow due to having to have multible guns for using the tanks and all the liquids requires more than a couple of guns to make money, but i understand that

I put a M1D cheek piece on mine, because i have seen picutes of the A4 with them and does make a difference to me anyway

shot it from sling and kept in the ten ring at 100 yards with reduced target

that was with my copy of the hornady load 168 gr copycat, want to try some 175's also

[Match223]

I had mine re-parked (action, barrel, handguard band, scope base & trigger guard) here in TN @ CCA, I have also had Scott in Hendersonville, NC @ FORSCO re-park some of my stuff over the years and he does a good job when you can catch him. My new rifle has been re-parked with all the small parts re-blued and it looks fantastic, I'm waiting on the scope to get returned before I post a pic of the rifle.

[pelago]

now this one has me confused

i had shims in the front scope base, two of them total was ,020, took them out thinking that i would gain some elevation

i lost elevation??

had to add another ten minutes to achieve same results with the shims in

replaced shims will re shoot tomorrow

[George in NH]

Sir,
To gain elevation using shims, shim the rear only. Do not use more than three shims as doing so will put too much strain on the tube. I was using a Leupold scope, two piece base set and rings and I could not get to 600 yards. I called Leupold, they explained the problem and sent me (free) a shim
set. The tech advised me to use not more than three shims and he thought that two would do the job.
It did. HTH, George in NH

[pelago]

I am not puting shims under the tube

"i had shims in the front scope base, two of them total was ,020, took them out thinking that i would gain some elevation"

now these shims were under the front of the scope base, not in contact with tube at all

the shims actually were between the redfield base and the receiver, as in the instructions and notes from AR worksheet

never thought of shims under the tube, that would require some creativity, but the shims as it came from the army were under the scope base

but still the question remains, or am i just way off in thinking, if you raise the scope in front you lower the bullet strike??? or is that not true... not at all a scope pro, comfortable with iron sights and if i raise iron sights the strike is lower, lower iron sights and strike is higher, but today it sure was not the case

i had to add ten inches or ten clicks of elevation to duplidcate the previous shots


i have shimmed scope tubes, by cutting .010 brass and laying it in the tube and bending it, then coated tube with release agent and took steel wool to scope ring and mixed up some JB Weld and put a dab in the spot and put scope on and tightened enough to make a new base
(NEEDED MORE ELEVATION TO SHOOT AR10 BEYOND 600)

it worked, some judicious filing and cleaning up and the scope base has a new area for new lift and i now have enough elevation to shoot from 200 yards to 1000 yards with Weaver T36 on a AR10, with a bipod it holds the tne ring at 1K yards

[Match223]

Removal of the shims in the front should have made you subtract elevation instead of adding unless they were not in contact to the base / receiver to start with.
Were you at the top of your scopes elevation to start with?
There is no way the scope is hitting the handguard?
Hmmmmmmmmm????

[pelago]

i agree, it should have!! not hitting anything hand guard not even close
no, not at top, i have from top to bottom 90 clicks available, with 21 for 100 yard zero, might be close for 200, and with normal come up i should be okay might have to add maybe 4 moa for 200 then another 3-5 for 300 and to normal come up for 600
my M1a starts at 7 moa for 200, 10 for 300 and 20 for 600, those are pretty close to X ring each time

key word is should be

will see tomorrow, i plan on once again obtain wind zero (taking scope on and off changes wind zero, i know in the movies they put scope on and off, and hit something a mile away, but i sure dont)

but i will run the thing up from 100 zero and record it on the paper backing, i have 48" target stand and we will just hve to see what is what

[pelago]

Shot today,
a 3 round group at 100 yards base line, established 100yd zero
up 3 clicks on scope, 3 round centered up 3"
up 3 clicks on scope, 3 round centered another 3" 6" from base lind mark
up 3 clicks on scope, 3 round centered another 3" 9" from base line mark
up 3 clicks on scope, 3 round centered another 3" 12" from base line mark
up 3 clixka on scope, 3 round centered another 3" 15" from base line mark
up 5 clicks on scope, 3 round centered another 5" 20" from base line mark

now i shot over fifty rounds today and at 100 yards if i did my part the gun did its part i put a 5"X5" wide cross and then drew a line thru it and counted up to 35" 2" increments and the rifle would move up 3" for 3 clicks so its seems as if it is one minute for sure, some of you have said it was and you are correct (not that there was a doubt, but i have to see it sometimes, i know anal, but wth)

lot more elevation available on scope might be 1000 yards in there??

somehow, and i have no idea, i feel i screwed up on the first time i shot rilfe WITH THE SHIMS IN
consequently i am going back to zero, will count down to 21 minutes and then count down again to mechanical zero to obtain data with the shims in

kind of interesting, still want to work on the base line 100 yard zero

and now pulling shims to see what happens

[emmagee1917]

I , too , have removed and added shims to an A4 , two different A4s as a matter of fact. Adding and removing those shims has the exact opposite effect you would think they would. I still cannot wrap my head around why this is so , it just is .
HTH , Chris

[pelago]

i am sure glad you said that!!!
it was driving me nuts
regards

but we shall see what the next go around is, shims out!!, can not do it this weekend am competing at Camp Butner with the NSSC

[jgaynor]

Keep in mind all the real world A4's that were equipped with shim's were Weaver 330C's or M73B1's. The M73B1 (and 330C of course) was manufactured with 1/4" clicks. Had the Lyman Alaskans been delivered and actually used with the A4 perhaps a different procedure would have been required to initially zero the scope???.

Regards,

Jim

[emmagee1917]

Prob'ly not. The problem of tolerance stacking would still be there. Most guns built then had a way to adjust the zero. Carbines had thier front sit ground at the factory range , the Garand had adjustable rear sight elevation zeros , the 1903/A3s had replacable front sight blades , all done because each rifle was a law unto itself. The A4 was made to take one shim for a reason. If a little one way , they could remove the shim , a little the other , they could add one.
Here is the military way to do the M73B1:

Turn the windage in the direction of the arrow till it bottoms out. Come back to the zero point , then back 4 complete revolutions. That is now centered.
Turn the elevation in the direction of the arrow till it bottoms out. Come back to zero , then give it two more revolutions. This should be close to the 100 yard zero. Adjust the big screws for windage and add/subtract shims to sight in at 100 yds. You must confirm by actual firing.Once sighted in by this , your good for out to a thousand yards ( yah-right) with M2 ball or equal ( 188 clicks up , three revolutions plus 8 clicks ).
The 330 has plenty of adjustment , but due to the crosshairs moving in your field of view , this is how the army set it up to get the most out of it. They recommended sighting it in for a single range ( 200 - 250- 300 yds) depending on your conditions , then just using Kentucky elevation , due to the ease of losing click ( or revolution ) count. Sill , if it was set up this way , you could turn down to bottom and start over and be very close.

HTH , Chris

[pelago]

seem to be on the same wave length, i mechanically zeroed the windage adj on scope, then shot and adjusted mech zero on the redfield base, at 50 yards three rounds made a penny size hole and split the vertical line on a piece of target paper i drew and put up true vertical.....

also started a good data book on a small bound journal bought at staples, actually have one of these for all my target rifles, can only remember when i write it down, and i keep track of rounds fired and also did a throat erossion measurment since it is a new barrel have a good starting point

[Match223]

I'm hoping to take mine two 1903A4geries out this fall and shoot some medium range matches (600 yards) with them at Oak Ridge, looking foreward to seeing how they group.

Gary

[bd1]

You've got a good barrel; that's what makes the rest of the exercise worth it.