diameter of small ring 98 versus wwII version 98

[pelago]

i have a erfurt KAR 98, dated from 1920 (receiver only)
need to figure out if it is a small or larger , this is not a KAR (littlea), i have one of those from 1915

i know there is a difference in diameter of the two, but what difference??

[Emri]

Small Ring = approx. 1.3" D.

Large Ring = about 1.5 or so. Don't remember exactly at this immediate moment.

HTH,

Emri

[pelago]

i have a small ring mauser from ERFURT armory, mfg date 1918

been told that these are quite a bit stronger than the model 96 swede, have a clean clean action and deciding what caliber to create, also have several lyman and unertl scopes to utilize...

trying to think along the lines of 22-250, and the extractor looks quite adequate, but is it, or will the rifle be plagued with extraction problems unless tricky mod done to extractor???

i do not have any exp in any of this in the planing stages

comments from those out there that do
please

do not want to get exotic, do not want to create something that i have to be equal in exotic for brass and reloading

[Art]

The case of the .22-.250 is, I believe based on the .250 Savage which is based on the .30-06 which is based on the case of the father of all Mauser rounds, the 7.65x53mm Mauser. Any cartridge derived from this cartridge, and there are almost too many to count, should have a case head/cannelure similar enough to work with the extractor on your rifle

[pelago]

believe you are correct, and talked about this on some other boards and think i am leaning to 6.5 swede
neat cartridge, and also leaning to manlicher style with birdseye maple stock, gentry 3 pos safety, not sure about sights, where is it written it has to have a scope, more deer killed in under 100 yards with iron than with scopes.....

still a work in thought at this time, but i kinda like the euro style manlicher with stock all the way to the end........

we'll see

[Art]

6.5 Swedish Mauser might be a problem but I'm certainly not knowledgeable to say for sure. I understand the case really isn't in the Mauser generic cartridge family. Mauser type rifles were chambered in some non Mauser derived cartridges. The Japanese cartridges come to mind right off the bat as do the 8mm rimed cartridges used in the Siamese Mausers.

[pelago]

thanks for input, i am looking at the bolt in question from small ring 98 and the extractor claw (if that is the right word for the piece that grabs the case) comes over a 6.5 swede case quite easily, also comes over a 22.250 case pretty good also. ?? i would think a 270 might be a good candidate??

I have re chambered model 98's to 3006 but they are so close that the extractor is not a issue
wonder if there is a definitive reference to what calibers model 98's can easily adapt to

like i said i am just thinking out loud here

[jon_norstog]

Pelago,
the small ring diameter is 33mm, around 1.3". Same as the '9s 6 and earlier mausers. I have a '98 Mexican that I rebarreled to 6.5x55 and dropped (with a tiny bit of knife work) into a French walnut Swede stock.

The small ring '98 is a very desirable gun and will take hot loads in any standad rimless caliber, from 22/250 all the way up to .400 Whelen. The same extractor - one ring to rule them all! - fits. Feeding might be an issue foir longer shells, one easily resolved with a Swede magazine/trigger guard and a little work with the grinder.

For magnum calibers, I like the large ring action. It will need extractor work, plus some grinding on the action to feed mags. Best bet on that is buy a rifle that's already been butchered, so the other guy pays the gunsmith bill. Like they say, you spend $1200 on a good milsurp to turn it into a $300 sporter. Better to pick up the pieces afterwards, than spend all that your self.

Good Luck!

jn

[Emri]

thanks for input, i am looking at the bolt in question from small ring 98 and the extractor claw (if that is the right word for the piece that grabs the case) comes over a 6.5 swede case quite easily, also comes over a 22.250 case pretty good also. ?? i would think a 270 might be a good candidate??

I have re chambered model 98's to 3006 but they are so close that the extractor is not a issue
wonder if there is a definitive reference to what calibers model 98's can easily adapt to

like i said i am just thinking out loud here


The standard bolt face is what is generally refered to as "30/06" size. Any cartridge with a head diameter of .473" nominal dimension will work with your bolt and extractor. Just be sure it is compatible with the feed rails of the reciever. 30/06, .270, .257 Roberts (an excellent choice, especially in the Ackley Improved version), .25/06, 7mm X 57, 8mm X 57, etc. all work quite well with the feed rails. Avoid something odd like .284 Winchester which has a standard head size but an enlarged case capacity.

HTH,

Emri

[pelago]

looking more and more like 6.5 swede

took bolt and worked with all kinds of cartridges and many many seemed to work fine and claw would grab and extract

6.5 seems to be kind of good caliber, the 6.5 used in ar's do quite well

now, barrel size, twist rate, length, diameter

here is plan
manlicher style stock, birdseye maple, with moderate cheek comb
shilen barrel
gentry 3 pos safety
timney??? maybe trigger
ramp express sights to co incide with front manlicher sights
1940's weaver 6 power rebuilt and reconditioned looks like new

http://www.gunsamerica.com/userimages/845/927264896/pop_wm_2153073.jpg

[dave]

I do not know what you mean when say the extractor "comes over " a case.? Mauser positive feed rifles are designed for the cartridge rim to slide UNDER the extractor when fed from the magazine. If you have a cartridge in the chamber and can easly close the bolt OVER the rim, you have a weak extrctor.

[pelago]

you are correct, i mis spoke or typed, from magazine that is correct, what i did was take the bolt and simply slide cartridges under the extractor as the bolt would when it picks up the cartridge, and all the cartridges i tried had plenty of extraction grip on the claw..

did i do better this time

the other concern i had was magazine, and i did not want to create a new magazine, that is another reason for the standard 6.5 swede