Old Army/New Army

[armorkav]

I remember, in 1988, being so tired I could'nt think straight, and sitting in the Latrine attempting to put a shine on a pair of "no shine" boots. wondering" WTF is this doing for the USA and how does this make me combat ready?" Flash forward 22 years and I love the smell of warm kiwi and leather. I guess that makes me a " lifer" or whatever, but I am cool with being Regular Army!

[Ron James]

Know what you mean. 1959 we were issue brown boots, left over from the old army, we were also issued bottles of black dye. The drill show us how to use a small smooth rock to " bruise " the leather before dyeing. Years later I still had a pair of those boots. They were black of course , except at the top where the blousing rubber rubbed, there they were a beautiful brown.

[Griff Murphey]

Although I only had two years ACDU if you count 7 years Army ROTC and 3 years USNR I was spit shining for 12 years. I find shoe shining very nostalgic and comforting. My masterpiece was a pair of cap toe jump boots I worked on daily, all one summer. They were spit shined all the way up. (Can we say obsessive-compulsive?) After I did that my friends all accused me of painting them with that faux patent leather boot paint they used to sell.

[SMOKEY]

What, no one cheated? Aero wax put a beautiful shine on and as long as you didnt flex your foot walking and crack the wax. Never did get gigged at inspection. And yes I did put many hours into spit shining shoes. My dear ole daddy taught me that when I was a kid. He never went anywhere with spit shined shoes.

[dave]

Don't see allotof guys in full dress anymore but the few I have look like the shoes are patent leather?

[Dan Shapiro]

That 'patent leather' look is corfam shoes. Great for parade, but hot as 'ell to wear all day on hot pavement.

[Liam]

One could cheat and use edge dressing (intended for the sides of the sole), but that shine would crack after a while and repeated applications. I know. I tried it.

One particular pair of Corcoran jump boots got passed around my company in West Germany. They were size 8, but they were shined so well that they accompanied at least 4 guys to the NCO academy while I was in FRG. Unlike BASIC, no one mandated we change pairs of boots daily, so no one noticed that those stunningly-shined boots were WAYYYY small for me!

[phil441]

Another cheat in the late '50 - early '60 time frame was to apply and buff a good coat of polish, then go over it very lightly with a "5-Day" deodorant pad. Worked really well on cap toe jump boots.... as long as they stayed dry.

[Festus39]

Another cheat in the late '50 - early '60 time frame was to apply and buff a good coat of polish, then go over it very lightly with a "5-Day" deodorant pad. Worked really well on cap toe jump boots.... as long as they stayed dry.

Dry and not exposed to hot and direct sunlight. Even in ideal conditions it was only good for a short period such as an indoor inspection or a guard mount.

Festus

[Michael Tompkins]

As a military policeman, I had to look good all the time. My jump boots were spit-shined all of the way up...even the tongue. I used to get accused of painting them with polyurethane. Ice-cold water and a cotton baby diaper was the secret over about 20 base coats. I used a woman's pantyhose to buff any scratches out between polishes. I used to lend them out to guys that went to BLC, PLC or trying for E-5. Never tried Mop n' Glo or any of that other stuff, just good old Kiwi. Had 1 1/4" ripple soles put on them too and ladder-laced them. Most comfortable boots I have ever worn...period.

[Nick Riviezzo]

Ice cold water was the major ingredient with Kiwi for a great spit shine but stand in the sun for five minutes and your shine would melt! Solution? Glow Coat floor wax applied with a cotton ball over the spit shine. Shined great and stayed for a long time if you had no major scuffs.Got a scuff? Buff lightly and re apply Glow Coat[ probably two coats over the scuff]. Nick

[Ron James]

I tried all the other methods, always went back to Kiwi ( or Esquire ) and an old Tee shirt. I also found that if the base was there you could " dry" spitshine, it works.

[armorkav]

Second part to that thread was that, What would these younger soldiers do? Suede boots and Clorfram shoes immediately as a grad present. What do they take out of Basic training that will be with them for life? Also if you went to the cheap and easy method, I consider you below human!
Armorkav!

[Maury Krupp]

I did my share of spit-shining from 1971-74. I tried to be a STRAC troop in garrison so maybe it was more than my share.

But I pretty much gave it all up when I switched from green to blue.

It didn't keep the airplanes apart or get one down to minumums on a PAR in crappy weather or even cover the midshift on the watch schedule so nobody cared too much about it.

If today's Army has finally realized that basic truth then that's probably a good thing.

Maury

[Michael Tompkins]

Ice cold water was the major ingredient with Kiwi for a great spit shine but stand in the sun for five minutes and your shine would melt! Solution? Glow Coat floor wax applied with a cotton ball over the spit shine. Shined great and stayed for a long time if you had no major scuffs.Got a scuff? Buff lightly and re apply Glow Coat[ probably two coats over the scuff]. Nick

I seem to recall guys in my unit using that stuff, but over time it would turn white if it got wet too often. Do you remember it doing that? Mike

[Nick Riviezzo]

No never had it turn white. I was talking about spit shine first then Glow Coat.You can't keep putting Glow Coat on forever,you have to go back re shine with Kiwi and then Glow Coat again. The only white on boots I remember seeing was salt from folks with very sweaty feet or boots worn in salt water.Just like a good paint job or blueing job the shine was in the prep, the Glow Coat was a "fixative"to keep the shine from melting. NIck

[Shooter5]

I suppose at least one good thing about the new army is the 'combat mindset' that is applied to the ACU - Army Combat Uniform. Combat items for the field and pretty stuff for parade. Since the color black and shine is stupid in combat then boots shouldn't look like that - duh! What surprises me is that it took so long for the Sergeant Majors to come around to the idea.
Now, if they could only get over the obsession with wearing a "BERET" with the "Combat" uniform and return to sanity and use the "Patrol Cap"!!
Duh again, only Chuck Norris and the Brits wear a beret in combat!

[Beachbumbob]

I tried all the other methods, always went back to Kiwi ( or Esquire ) and an old Tee shirt. I also found that if the base was there you could " dry" spitshine, it works.

I was taught to take a lighter and 'melt' the first couple of coats of wax into the leather. Don't know if it worked better than just buffing the first couple of coats before you had a base down, but you could see the shine before you started buffing it. But the main secret was a good base coat of wax.

For whatever reason, I always felt like a real soldier in my heavy starched Class B uniform (khaki) and bloused jump boots that reflected light and the old C*Overseas*T cap.

[BEAR]

The only way to spit-shine is with Kiwi, 100% cotton T-shirt, cold water in the upturned polish lid and genuine spit to finish the job. Spent 6.5 years as a "Blackhat" at Ft. Benning and I spit-shined 3 pair of jump boots everyday. First pair for PT, second pair for morning drills, third pair for afternoon drills. Heaven help the little scumbag who stepped on my boots in the 34 foot tower. Oh yeah, I had a fourth pair for the dress uniform.
Any of you guys have to run in jump boots? They would cripple you up until they were broke in.
BEAR

[Michael Tompkins]

Any of you guys have to run in jump boots? They would cripple you up until they were broke in.
BEAR

As an MP, I had to run in them a few times. When I did, I was usually chasing somebody. I had ripple soles put on them. They made a funny screeching sound when you walked down the hall. Could never sneak-up on somebody, that's for sure! Most comfortable boots ever, though.

[armorkav]

As a response, I was and am exstatic that the Army has moved away from the pretty and moved to the prudent reality, however, something will be lost. What are the thoughts on this
Thank you

[Maury Krupp]

The whole Army ran in boots until the late 70s or early 80s. Some of us are still paying for that today :icon_e_sad:

To be clear, I didn't particularly care for people who looked like bags of $hit. Take a little pride in yourself fer crissakes :mad:

But when they spend more time shining their boots or brass instead of learning or doing their jobs or get gigged for not having shiney stuff no matter how well they do their jobs, that's taking things a bit too far.

Give me a guy who can work a wing weather recovery or the 5PM air carrier rush by himself and I don't really care what his boots look like.

Maury

[Michael Tompkins]

I got out in '81 and we ran our PT and PT test in boots. Did the airborne shuffle and got timed in the mile in boots. Got timed as a group at 5 miles. Best time I ran was 6 flat in the mile, but we had a couple of guys that ran in the 5:20's and 40's. That's flying when you're wearing boots! Mike

[BEAR]

Yes, the whole Army did run in boots however running in jump boots was a whole different experience.
Maury, I'm not sure if you were taking a pot shot at me with your comment about spending more time shining boots than doing your job so I'll just accept it as an overall generalization. As you probably know that there are several jobs in the Army that require a higher degree of spit and polish than others. Of these are : The Old Guard, Drill sergeants, Airborne instructers, Color Guards and Ceremonial units. Their purpose is to present to the public and those troops being instructed a visible example of the highest professional standards a soldier can attain.
BEAR

[Maury Krupp]

Bear,

No, nothing personal at all, just a generalization on how the Army was when I was in it.

When S&P is part of the job description that's one thing. As is taking at least some pride in your own individual appearance. As I said earlier, I spent a fair amount of time with Kiwi and a t-shirt and sent my fatigues to the QM Laundry for heavy starch.

But looking at it logically, uniforms etc that require Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, or Marines to spend/waste time or money doing non-mission related "busy work" just to look halfway decent or having work or field uniforms that aren't suitable for work or the field was, is, and always will be dumb.

When the USAF was considering what colors to use in its new camoflague pattern, the common comment from the wrench-turners was to use grease, oil, hydraulic fluid, and JP4. That made sense to me.

Maury

[Griff Murphey]

Spending time on uniform and polishing details was a way of inculcating individual pride. Never saw "athletic shoes" - maybe once or twice toward the end of '75-'76. I miss those days of "strac" heavy starched, tapered uniforms; by comparison, today's fatigues (BDUs) look sloppy. But they are infinitely more practical for the field. They are a fighting uniform, in every way.

[Shooter5]

Gentlemen:
I think we're all in accord when it comes to looking good and practical use. In this day and age, which commander would rather have his troops spend 2 hours a night on boots and starch...or hit the gym, learn a foreign language/culture on eArmyU, and study an FM or use the Army or Marine Corps reading list?
I miss breaking starch, getting a high-&-tight every week at Ranger Joes and looking STRAC. But its usefulness is from another era. I do agree the younger trooops may miss out on elements of pride and discipline it instills but our military is a different force from decades past.
As an example, I remember a CSM at Sgts Time coming out to inspect and he could not get past one of my Joe's missing a helmet band...which had already been addressed at the appropiate squad level! Anything else SgtMajor?, like can these guys throw a grenade properly or shoot their weapon accurately? He (and too many others like him) were all about fancy and little to none about being a Warrior.

[armorkav]

Amen shooter! I also wished our uniforms that looked like mud/oil/disrepair, because after a short time in the field or combat thats what they look like any way, to no avail. I appreciate all of the responses and look forward to further reading.
Armorkav!

[Nick Riviezzo]

I had a helicopter crew chief at Ft. Carson,CO that spray painted his "work boots" every morning with gloss black paint. Once you have gotten fuel or oil on them you can't polish them so every day he would wipe off yesterdays paint and re-spray.He was a great crew chief too. Nick

[Michael Tompkins]

The worse thing that I ever had to clean off my boots was somebody's puke and blood...both from bar room brawls. Mike

[Nick Riviezzo]

Mike, I spent a great deal of time as an MP ,CID and Fed. augmentation to the USSS,so I appreciate your plight. As I used to tell my young "Mud Puppies" after a messy brawl,"Be glad it ain't your puke or your blood".The Military Police seem to be in great danger these days as here at FT. Rucker they have started to use "DOD Policemen". 25 years ago we had to take on the mission of "Rear Area Security" to stay alive as a Corp. If DoDPolice assume the roll of garrison law enforcment that will only leave POW and Confinement Facility ops plus the rear area security mission. That was an infantry mission and when we got stuck with it it was "Infantry without the RE-UP bonus" .Military Police were "Police" but we were "of the troops and for the troops". I fear we are nearing the end of an era, more's the pity. Nick

[Michael Tompkins]

Nick,

Always great to make contact with a fellow MP. I spent my entire time in W. Germany. Never had state-side duty, so I never really had the "garrison" experience. I was a divisional MP, which meant we spent a lot of time in the field and then would work the road. It was never dull. I always thought it was the best of both worlds.

As for replacing the MP with DOD employees, I think there was talk of that as far back as when I was in. 95B10 was considered a combat MOS and I guess the role of gate duty and what not, was being looked at back then. Mike