Marines in Afghanistan

[Loy Hamilton]

Sgt. Ryan Mack, spotter at left, talks on the radio as Spc. Thomas Leuthold, 20, takes aim at Taliban insurgents during a firefight in the Badula Qulp area.




U.S. Marines from Fox Company, 2nd Battalion settle into a makeshift patrol base during Operation Germinate iin Farah Province, southern Afghanistan.

I bet you old school Marines didn't have those in your squad...Ooh-rah :icon_salut:

[pmclaine]

Not Marines. Soldiers. They are wearing shoulder unit patches and ACU's.

[Loy Hamilton]

Not Marines. Soldiers. They are wearing shoulder unit patches and ACU's.

you're right, top photo soldiers, bottom photo, MARINES.

[pmclaine]

Looks like the three to the left are wearing shoulder patches, I'd guess 4th ID, the one on the right may be wearing MARPAT. The patches might be some kind of a Battalion Landing Team ID but those are customarly a red tab. I'd need a better resolution photo to tell. I cant think of any Marine shoulder patches that are actually used on the uniform.

Other points

Shirts appear to be the ACU undershirt that the Army has been issuing for troops to wear in hot weather, lighter than the ACU coat but still has cammo sleeves that extend beyond the vest. The Marines use their MARPAT blouses. Point for me.

Boots appear to be bloused rather than tucked which seems to indicate Marines. I dont think the Army uses blousing bands. Point for you.

I see some coyote brown gear in the photo which would indicate Marines. Point for you.

They have rifles rather than carbines. I think the Marines have favored the rifle. Point for you. But if these are not front line troops, and as far as I know the Army does not allow ladies on the line, it is possible they would get rifles.

I'm not trying to be a dick, they are good pictures. Just having fun playing with the details. I'm sure any soldier would enjot the flattery of being misidentified as a Marine.

[Art]

They are all soldiers. One of the troops in the top picture is wearing the patch of the 2nd Infantry Division. The four women in the bottom picture (and they are all girls look closely) are indeed 4th ID.

The Marines blouse their boots now but when I was in the Army from 1966-1969 I never saw a Marine blouse his boots in the "utility" uniform. In that period at least all soldiers bloused their boots unless they had a "profile" or an MOS that required other footgear. Most pictures I've seen of both Marines and Army troops in Afganistan seem to show them in bloused boots so it must be SOP for everyone now.

[Art]

....also, the man on the rifle in the first picture is identified as "Spc (specialist) Thomas Leuthold" which is a dead giveaway as to him being a soldier and not a Marine.

[Loy Hamilton]

Looks like the three to the left are wearing shoulder patches, I'd guess 4th ID, the one on the right may be wearing MARPAT. The patches might be some kind of a Battalion Landing Team ID but those are customarly a red tab. I'd need a better resolution photo to tell. I cant think of any Marine shoulder patches that are actually used on the uniform.

Other points

Shirts appear to be the ACU undershirt that the Army has been issuing for troops to wear in hot weather, lighter than the ACU coat but still has cammo sleeves that extend beyond the vest. The Marines use their MARPAT blouses. Point for me.

Boots appear to be bloused rather than tucked which seems to indicate Marines. I dont think the Army uses blousing bands. Point for you.

I see some coyote brown gear in the photo which would indicate Marines. Point for you.

They have rifles rather than carbines. I think the Marines have favored the rifle. Point for you. But if these are not front line troops, and as far as I know the Army does not allow ladies on the line, it is possible they would get rifles.

I'm not trying to be a dick, they are good pictures. Just having fun playing with the details. I'm sure any soldier would enjot the flattery of being misidentified as a Marine.

is this a 4th ID Soldier too:icon_scratch:

[Art]

is this a 4th ID Soldier too:icon_scratch:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2047/2850040976_601bc4c23b.jpg?v=0

Sure looks like the shoulder patch of the 4th ID to me. A diamond with four Ivy leaves.

[Art]

The 1st Marine Division has an insignia in the shape of a diamond too but it is a somewhat different shape than the 4th ID. Marines tend not to wear shoulder patches on the combat uniform though I'm sure it has happened. I do think I can see what looks like the 4 Ivy leaves (IV - get it) on the patches in these pictures. So I guess I am only about 90% certain that the old boy in the last picture is a soldier.

[pmclaine]

is this a 4th ID Soldier too:icon_scratch:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2047/2850040976_601bc4c23b.jpg?v=0

Kind of looks like their sleeves are rolled Marine Corps style and it looks like they are wearing Marpat. Are those perhaps some IFF patches for IR sight devices or other magical weaponry?

[pmclaine]

They are all soldiers. One of the troops in the top picture is wearing the patch of the 2nd Infantry Division. The four women in the bottom picture (and they are all girls look closely) are indeed 4th ID.

The Marines blouse their boots now but when I was in the Army from 1966-1969 I never saw a Marine blouse his boots in the "utility" uniform. In that period at least all soldiers bloused their boots unless they had a "profile" or an MOS that required other footgear. Most pictures I've seen of both Marines and Army troops in Afganistan seem to show them in bloused boots so it must be SOP for everyone now.

Marines certainly blouse their boots but the practice is to use a blousing band in difference to the Army custom of pegging the trousers into the tops of their boots.

[Shooter5]

Blousing habits in the Army is not a hard/fast rule. It can depend on unit, leadership, circumstances.
Some tuck them in, some use blousing bands or cords just like some Marines. Others use the built in blousing strings that are standard on the ACU uniform.
Occasionally, like in hot weather or combat ops, they are left undone for ventilation. However, generally speaking it is recommended to blouse boots to help keep out insects.

[usmc69]

Not Jarheads. Marines don't wear unit patches on their uniforms, name tapes and Marines tapes now (unfortunately...that was borrowed from the Army). Trousers were bloused in at least 1969 and until I retired in 1993, still are as far as I know. Will ask Nephew as he is there now as a Jarhead.

[Shooter5]

Pm Claine:
Although specific Congressional prohibitions exist agains 'women in combat', that distinction is largely moot. Women can serve in virtually any location any other unit is serving. The work around is simply the females are not assigned to, say, the infantry brigade, but instead an adjacent headquarters/supply convoy/logistical/medical unit.
In SW Asia, there is no 'frontline' and therefore no 'rear' area.
Thus, a company goes on patrol with an attached medical platoon which may have several assigned female medics and they take contact; then does anyone really argue anymore that these women are not actually in combat?
In addition, Army and particularly Marine units have been utilizing 'all female' teams or squads if you will to get around the cultural issues of having male troops engaging with local female nationals. Female troops have advantages no male can acquire and that brings relevance all its own to the battlefield.
An female MP serving in Iraq several years ago actually was awarded a Silver Star for actions on contact during a very ferocious firefight.
M16A2s are not very common in the Army anymore so that isnt really an indicator of anything although the Corps has held onto a higher percentage of A2s.
A4s are also out there serving.

[Loy Hamilton]

U.S. Marine Corps

[Loy Hamilton]

more 4th ID Marines:1948:

[usmc69]

Darn they are getting Armyfied.......Pretty soon they'll be have all that other junk hanging off their uniforms.

[pmclaine]

I wonder if they are friendly force identifiers. I bet they reflect with high tech gunsites to prevent fratricide. Good for our guys until the bad guys get a hold of a uniform or the sight technology.

[Chaz]

Well if you guys can't figure out who they are, then the Hindustanis can't either and I think that's a good thing. Wait a minute, Wikileaks would have the answer! B

[Art]

There isn't any doubt about the first of the two pictures that started this thread, the two soldiers are definately 2nd Infantry. The one with the girls I am 90% sure are 4th infantry becasuse I can make out little black dots where the Ivy leaves should be on the patches.

The Marines seem to be wearing patches now too. I was not a Marine but I am sad to see them becoming, as was mentioned before "armyfied."

I will say if the caption is so obviously wrong on the sniper picture it could be wrong on any of them.

[pmclaine]

They are not unit patches. The new uniforms are designed to not reflect IR light (hence no starch). I bet those diamonds glow under IR light so that friendly forces can make an ID. Its a double edge sword assuming the enemy captures a uniform or set of NVG's, but with the capabilitues and speed of todays battle some security sacrifices are needed..

That is my guess. Has to be someone with recent service to answer this.

The Marines are not armyfied. Interesting, but not unexpected, that they have been the only service that maintained the conservative line regards dont ask dont tell based on its unknown detremental affects on mission. The agenda types will complain the Corps is homophobic and fail to recognize it is most certainly not, only totally mission focused. Who needs this distraction when involved in two wars with a third on the horizon? Hopefully they maintain there focus - to paraphrase Gen Vandegrift "The bended knee is not a tradition of the Corps" - nor is losing for that matter.

[Shooter5]

That group of females is most likely Marines since they appear to wearing (desert) MarPat. Various types of IFF patches are worn and in different locations. The Army ACU has them built in with flap covers IOT to cover them up if needed.
It is highly unlikely they can be utilized agains our troops since the IR light needed to illuminate the patch would given away the enemy position (but that would be an advantage to us!).

[fkienast]

I see those patches all the time over at Camp Lejeune. The patches are solid black and attached with Velcro. I have no idea as to the purpose. they are new since I retired in '99. Definitely not a divisional patch.

[Marine A5 Sniper Rifle]

They are all soldiers. One of the troops in the top picture is wearing the patch of the 2nd Infantry Division. The four women in the bottom picture (and they are all girls look closely) are indeed 4th ID.

The Marines blouse their boots now but when I was in the Army from 1966-1969 I never saw a Marine blouse his boots in the "utility" uniform. In that period at least all soldiers bloused their boots unless they had a "profile" or an MOS that required other footgear. Most pictures I've seen of both Marines and Army troops in Afganistan seem to show them in bloused boots so it must be SOP for everyone now.

Art, I was a Marine during that time period, and we all bloused our utilities and our camos (regulations-even in RVN) and wore starched covers. I still have my blouse bands. Now to a Marine, a bloused utility is a pants leg rolled under and held with an elastic band (some were springs). A blouse is a shirt. A cover is, for lack of a better description, a hat.

Semper Fi, Mr. Wang.

Jim

[Loy Hamilton]

All

I deleted the photos I had posted because the more i thought about it,
the less I thought about having posted them. Especially since one was a very
high resolution pic showing a closeup of a Marine sniper. Too much detail maybe,
maybe, maybe not, but just in case there was something in the pic some bad guy
might pickup on and see something that might put our soldiers to a disadvantage.
Can't never tell.

I've been overthere/Afghanistan and you would be very suprised just who and where
those people have internet connections...

[Shooter5]

http://photoblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2010/12/09/5616457-all-female-us-marine-team-in-afghanistan