The Silence is Deafening

[Griff Murphey]

Not sure I even want to post this... last thing I want to do is get everyone riled up at Christmas on EITHER side of this thing. BUT.... One thing I've noticed. I think most of us are so stunned, I don't think we as veterans even want to talk about the end of "Don't Ask and Don't Tell," or any other aspect of this whole episode. I kind of think most of us are just left in shock and kind of want to forget about it. It's like the media: nobody's asking the veterans, nobody's listening to the veterans. I guess there is a wildly happy minority out there and a bunch of wine and cheese liberals who never put on a uniform that are happy as well. They got what they wanted.

[dave]

Why should "veterans" have any say in current law or regs of the military? I am a vet too but don't think my opinion should have any weight on what they are doing. There were gays in the military when I was in (I'm sure) and they are there now! There are gays who very macho and there are the 'flaming limp wrist' types. The latter are not in the military.

And look at the bright side, if your fox hole buddy falls in love with you he will REALLY watch your back! hehehe! (no pun intended, of course)

[Garden Valley]

Let's look 20 years or so down the road. We will then have senior ranking officers who are openly gay and they will be making the decisions about how the military will operate. What happens then??

[Beachbumbob]

I would expect him to base his decisions on the 20 years of experience he has. And to do what he has been doing for the previous 20 years.

“I, (state your name), having been appointed a (rank) in the United States (branch of service), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foriegn and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the office upon which I am about to enter. So help me God.”

[Garden Valley]

Undoubtedly he will base his decisions on the 20 years of experience he has had. That is exactly my point.

[SMOKEY]

This admin has no idea of the can of worms they have opened, gee let's see now "we" the tax payers will be providing "spousal" support for them. Holy crap

[UUURah]

Well as a veteran my opinion should count too, but it doesn't. The libs are calling all the shots now and they will continue until they are voted out.

I feel that having a gay serving "openly" opens up more than a can of worms. It's no different than if someone like me was standing in formation and I say "when 1600 gets here I will be having sex with a kumquat". It's going to make the other Soldiers look at me different, not as another equal soldier but as a weirdo.

As for the long term effects, those 13,000 who were mustered out, some will probably be allowed back in, with pay, given rank, declared heroes, have a special ceremony where they are give special medals, and from then on treated like they were Chesty Puller at Choson. The others who don't reup, will receive big payouts, go on MSDNC, ABC, CBS, and write books that give them millions.

THAT is what is wrong with it.

[Beachbumbob]

Well as a veteran my opinion should count too, but it doesn't. .

As a veteran you should be interested in making sure that those who WANT to serve have not only the opportunity to serve but are equipped with the best and most up to date equipment available to them. Then you need to ensure that they have the proper training and support to utilize this to protect and defend the legacy you left them.

[Weasel]

Smokey is right. We the veteran's don't mean sh*( but we the tax payer's should mean something. We are the ones who are going to have to pay for this. You can take it to the bank, it's about the money. The opinions of the veteran's in this country has never meant a damn thing. If you are waiting for the VFW to say something, forget it. It just means more future members.

[Michaelp]

Veterans also have an interest in what makes things work.

This deal has the possibility of introducing divisiveness of a destructive level into military society.

There were deep reasons for DADT that are being ignored by those with a destructive agenda.
There were some murky hierarchies and networks involved.
Don't forget the recent SMA who got busted out for violating young females.

The opinions of a lot of combat and working troops were ignored regarding this.
"Wanting to serve" doesn't mean everyone ought to.

The idea of changing military society in such a crucial time is preposterous.
Just more signature activity by the radical leftists and their hate America atitudes.
The lame duck session illustrated this by spitefully passing items the public clearly rejected.

[Griff Murphey]

In the "Old Navy" (WW-1-1920's) when this was found to be practiced on a ship it was said: "The Beast is loose."

I had the pleasure of speaking again with our BLT 1-4 battalion chaplain who I was on float with back in '75, in 2000 when he had right at 30 years in and he was in Texas as a four striper Navy Captain at an interservice chaplains' conference in Dallas, at that time nearing retirement. I asked him if the Navy had changed with women now at sea, and he said there was an active, coercive group of lesbian sailors at sea forcing other women to submit to them. When I asked him how this could be, he explained, "How would it be, for us (men) if they were bigger and stronger than us?" I am sure in some cases, this could be true even for men. Personally I just don't think the possibility of ANY kind of sex, heterosexual OR homosexual, is a good thing in the close confines of any combat organizations or at sea. I look at it as has been often stated by others: "PREJUDICIAL TO GOOD ORDER AND DISCIPLINE."

I kind of look at it like MichaelP... I would love to be an Airborne Ranger or a USMC Scout Sniper but at age 61 and 234 LBS I am not qualified, and would be a danger to myself and others if you put me in those jobs.

[Mr. X]

Being a veteran really has nothing to do with it. The real issue is this: either homosexuality is perverse, deviant, and sick by nature and by logic, or it's perfectly normal and acceptable. I personally think homosexuality sis perverse and deviant, but unfortunately I am in the minority in this country. Fact is we live in an "anything goes" nation where if you oppose homosexuality, adultery, fornication, perversion, drug use, etc. etc. YOU are considered abnormal. The President of the United States of America admitted snorting cocaine and being present when a buddy of his mainlined heroin with a needle. Obama planned on shooting up too but backed out at the last minute. Read his autobiography.

Truthfully, I think this country is finished. It is a gluttonous nation where moderation in finance, debt. sex, drugs, food and entertainment are all passe. It can't lase forever like this and I'm betting it'll be finished a lot sooner than most of us think.

[El Paso Mark]

Yeah, that whole "Equality and women on ships" thing sure worked, didn't it?

Cheers,

Mark

[PhillipM]

As an unintended consequence the left has been dealt a major blow with this decision on one front. The liberal America hating universities can no longer keep recruiters out because of no gays allowed in the military.

[Nick Riviezzo]

I've asked it before and,having received no reasonable answer,I will ask it again.WHERE ELSE IN NATURE[the animal kingdom]IS HOMOSEXUAL BEHAVIOR NORMAL? It is deviant,perverse and repulsive to God and man.All of this "coming out" crap is a reinforcement of what is essentially wrong.Nick

[PhillipM]

I've asked it before and,having received no reasonable answer,I will ask it again.WHERE ELSE IN NATURE[the animal kingdom]IS HOMOSEXUAL BEHAVIOR NORMAL? It is deviant,perverse and repulsive to God and man.All of this "coming out" crap is a reinforcement of what is essentially wrong.Nick

Cows are homosexual. I used to work on a dairy farm and the easiest job was to go watch for signs of heat. If cow A gets mounted by cow B and cow A stands still, cow A is in heat and possibly cow B too. If cow A runs away, cow B is in heat. We did all artificial insemination which is why I had to go watch, that way we would know when to do the deed.

I never saw it but was told at the bull sperm companies, Select Sires, and American Breeders Service, they had teaser bulls for the sires to mount while a guy with a very, very bad job collected the semen.

[Weasel]

I thought that we were at least one level above the animal kingdom.

[emmagee1917]

I thought that we were at least one level above the animal kingdom.

Three thousand and five hundred years ago , God gave us ten guidlines for a happier life. Can anyone say , that in all this time , even one is no longer a challange ?
Chris

[Nick Riviezzo]

PhillipM, I think you can see deer,steers and most any wild animal play fighting and mounting each other as "practice" and learned behavior but I don't think they adopt that deviant behavior when time comes to actually mate.I don't believe they stand around in groups and lick and mount each other for pleasure.Just my NOT SO HUMBLE opinion. Nick

[Ron James]

The last unit I was a First Sgt. had over 250 enlisted. This was in Korea and thank god there were separate quarters for the women ( ask me some time about the problems they caused ). How are you going to quarter these " alternate lifestyle" people. You can't put two gay guys in the same room. If you put a straight and a gay in the same room the straight will kill the gay . Plus all the Congressional caused by mommies learning her son is rooming with a deviant! Every day details are enough to drive a First Sgt. to strong drink with out this hassle. I served 27 good years in the army, I'm very grateful this no longer my problem. I'm also very glad my sons have already served and are out. I really don't know if I could now recommend the service to a young guy, something for me to think about. Maybe I'm wrong and it will work out, but I'm very pessimistic. Also, I wonder if I could respect an openly gay officer, I would of course obey lawfull orders given to me, but could I do with it all my heart as is required for a successful unit to operate. I really wonder.

[Griff Murphey]

When they first put women near the potential FEBA in Korea I understand that when serious alerts were called a lot of men were missing as they were escorting ALL of the women to the rear. However, things are probably different today 15 or 20 years on. It looks to me like the girls are pulling their own weight even though they are not blue cord infantry (well neither was I). I still don't understand how a woman can be in the field with men and preserve modesty. I guess "modesty" is an obsolete concept.

Although my brilliant ACDU military career only lasted 2 years, I would second Ron's comments above.

[blackhawknj]

There was a letter signed by something like 1000 retired flag officers urging no change to the current policy, you see what influence they had.
My current policy is that if someone asks this enlisted Vietnam vet and retired Reserve officer about military service, my answer is NO!

[John Sukey]

I am just wondering what's next? Base housing for "partners"

[cwartyman]

Only after the Fed Govt is sued. Since the Feds dont recognize gay Marriage or same sex Domestic partnerships in the Military Base housing will have to consist of partner sharing the same BEQ/BOQ room.
Mack

[Guamsst]

There are gays who very macho and there are the 'flaming limp wrist' types. The latter are not in the military.

Oh yes they are! I saw a kid last week wearing some girl jeans and a black T-shirt with these little red an black striped wool fingerless gloves. He was SWISHING his way into the chowhall as if he was on a runway at a Paris fashion show. You better believ if anyone ever tells him to do anything he doesn't like or any situation ever feels unfair at all he will be whining discrimination in a heartbeat.

That's exactly the reason I opposed ending don't ask don't tell. How is it legal to discriminate against women in some jobs in the military, the handicapped and the stupid, but you can't even put a restriction on gays?

And wait till someone gets beaten for meat gazing in the showers. After they sexually harass someone they will cry about how they are the victim of homophobes.

[blackhawknj]

Several veterans who have served since DADT was enacted in 1993 have told me that individuals violating this policy were usually "outed" when they had to take their physicals prior to overseas deployment and tested HIV positive. They got to stay Stateside while straights faced the desert sun, freezing nights, IEDS, snipers, etc. That does a lot for understanding and respect.
If there were any when I served in the Army 1967-1971 they were far more low keyed and close mouthed and discreet. than the
loudmouths and braggarts and exhibtionists of today.
Those I have talked to who have served in the Coed Military weren't too happy with it, and bailed out because of the favoritism showed to women.