Long range shooting question

[BlitzKrieg]

HOw is it that the 5.56 can shoot at longer ranges and buck the winds? I am mystified that the .30 rifles have been stuffed in the bin of history for long range shooting. I know the 5.56 beat you less in a match but winds seem to me to be a huge dynamic with 5.56 caliber rifles for long range shooting.

I just would like to know how this happened . Not a pulse for a food fight on rifles. Just a inquirey to understand how lighter bullets can be made to shoot Long Range accurately.

THanks

[jem102]

The development of high BC 70-90 gr. bullets for .224 and the fact that the AR is considerably more accurate in NM configuration for WAY less money than an M1 or M1A. 24 gr. powder VS 46 gr., 75 gr. A-Max = 90.00/600 VS 168 gr. A-Max = 59.00/250.

[Hip's Ax]

Not sure where you are seeing this unless our definitions of Long Range are different. LR is defined by the NRA to be over 600 yards. Most times LR is 1000 yards and I'm not seeing any 223 being shot at the matches. 6mm and up is the norm with many shooting 6.5x284 or 7mm or a lot are still running 30's of one flavor or another. For LR service rifle I'm seeing M1A's properly modified to shoot 190gr bullets.

The only times I see a 223 AR rifle (or otherwise) on the 1000 yard line its a NMC shooter trying LR and they shoot 80's or 90's but I've never noticed one of them near the top of the pack.

[jem102]

As an XTC shooter I think in 2,3 & 600. You are correct 600 is considered "mid range" by NRA but as he was directly comparing 5.56 to .30 and how the 5.56 has "retired" the .30 "I" thought it applied to service rifle without too much of a leap. There is 1,000 for service rifle. I have shot it several times and it's quite the challenge. The AMU shooters usually do well in class and "I" would guess they can best a lot of bolt gunners at the distance but a 28" 6.5/.284 it's not.

[raymeketa]

600 yards is considered mid-range by both NRA and Benchrest. Disciplines such as Palma require either 223 Remington or 308 Winchester ammunition so you may find the smaller caliber competing there. But I doubt if any mid or long range shooter would say that the smaller caliber dominates, or is even competitive, except for exclusive AR 15 type matches. I know for a fact that you will seldom see a 22 caliber at 600 yard Benchrest and even less at 1000 yards.

Wind deflection is a product of ballistic coefficient so the high BC 22 bullets can have the same resistance to wind deflection as any of the bigger calibers. But it is so much easier to find good accurate loads for the 6mm thru .338 that most shooters prefer to take the easy route.

JMHO

Ray

[Maury Krupp]

I've only dabbled in LR Service Rifle but up until recently the AMU was shooting it with special built M16s. I think they had a 1:6 or 6.5 barrel and used 90gr bullets on top of a "don't try this at home kids" powder charge. Being the AMU I think they did OK.

If you look at the BC and wind drift of .30cal and .223 match bullets they're not all that different. That's part of the reason the ratgun dominates in XTC. For LR the trick is getting the velocity required by that extra 400yd.

You can do it fairly easily out of a long-barreled Match Rifle although like most Match Rifle shooters most Match Rifle LR guys go with something in the 6mm range. If you're shooting Palma and are stuck with .223 the long barrel will get you there.

For a SR you're stuck with an M1 or M14 in .30cal. Those barrels are long enough when teamed with a reasonable .30cal load. With an M16, .223 and a short barrel, it takes a bit more than most want to mess with.

It's worth noting that the AMU was the driving force behind the NRA classifying the M110 (AR-10) as a Service Rifle for competition. According to at least one source because they were tired of getting beaten by All-Guard shooting M14s :evil6:

Maury