What's the Worst Example of Government Waste You Saw in the Service?

[Griff Murphey]

I can remember seeing the 50th anniversary of the Army Aviation Branch at Fort San Houston, 1967; during Vietnam. They had various flight demos with a Curtiss Pusher replica and even the Confederate A.F.'s B-17. The highlight of the show was a flock of Hueys air assaulting in some grunts with BFA-equipped M-14s, The troops advanced in rushes, firing blanks as they went. As they emptied their mags they tossed them. After the "battle" was over the "public" swooped in and grabbed up all of the mags.

Another example of M-14 mag wastage, my ROTC unit at Trinity University went out to Camp Bullis, annually, to fam-fire the Junior Class on the M-14 Trainfire course before they were to go to Fort Sill for their Summer Camp. We fired our relays between thunderstorm bursts; I had the ammo detail loading up mags which at that time had to be loaded in 8 and 16 rd. increments for different parts of the course of fire, which was M-1 friendly. The result when it was all over was a footlocker full of wet M-14 magazines, some loaded, some not, allowed to sit for several days in the armory. The supply sergeant, I think, made off with the loose rounds; the mags just rusted. I was told they would be "surveyed." Too much trouble to disassemble, dry, and oil, I guess.

[5MadFarmers]

I see more waste in government than I ever saw in the military.

[Rick]

When I was on the Cat Crew we replaced a Vickers hydraulic pump on the Cat. The Navy leased them from the Vickers Corporation. Sticker price was around five to ten thousand dollars. Anyway we got the old pump out and on the flight deck elevator and passed it off to supply. Supply had trouble with the fork lift and went inside the island to call for some help. When he came back out the pump was gone. Some officer gave orders to throw it over the side because he didn't want it cluttering up his flight deck. At the time the cost of the pump was a new Corvette and enough money left over to pay the officers salary for a couple years.

[Art]

I see more waste in government than I ever saw in the military.

The military is part of the government. I've worked for both and didn't see a dime's worth of difference as far as waste goes. The military just has less to waste.

[Dan Shapiro]

Don't know about 'waste' - but 'stupidity' ran at least a close second.

For some reason the Army got on the "suggestion box" kick. With some success. Nobody knows how to do a better job cheaper than the person doing it. So the Army naturally ran it into the ground. "Suggestions" were no longer voluntary (as in requiring some thinking). At least one "suggestion" a month became mandatory.

So we played the game. One month it was suggested that the government buy plastic extensions for pencils. Because everyone knew that you threw the pencil away as it got shorter and shorter and harder to hold onto. Another time, it was suggested that the duffel bag be capable of being opened at either end - "because what you want is always at the bottom". After several months of similar suggestions, the brass finally got the message and suggestions were no longer mandatory.

[Michael Tompkins]

I never saw waste on a grand scale, but it was waste just the same. At both the large training areas in Graf and Hohenfels in the FRG, while on MP patrol we would sometimes kick around in the dumps. I was always amazed at the amount of ammunition, both blank and live that was tossed. A lot of it belted M60 stuff. There were also cases of C-rats...not all the time, but occasionally. At night, especially in the winter, we would set the dump on fire to get the wild boar to show up. We always had to keep our distance though, because some of the ammo and canned C-rats would start to cook-off. Also, if the mamma boars had young ones, they didn't take too kindly to us getting too close. Mike

[High Plaines Doug r]

I don't know if it was a threat to national security at the time but When I came back (late) from R&R in 1970 I was assigned as punishment (along with KP) to police the flight line at FB Snuffy from one end to the other and pick up all the un-expended ordnance. We had no containers to put the stuff into so we threw all we found into the various craters along the airstrip. "The stuff" consisted of just about everything imaginable: .50 cal belts, M-60 belts, M-16 magazines, Smoke grenades, Incendiary grenades, Fragmentation grenades, Concussion grenades. I didn't see any mortar rounds.
Anyway, I didn't see any profit in collecting all this stuff and leaving it out there for the Gooks, so I threw a willy-pete or incendiary grenade into any of the bomb craters we threw the ordnance into.
Well, that caused a big commotion. Big enough for me and the other guys on police call to sneak back into the firebase and disappear for awhile. One hole burned/exploded pretty much all night.
I missed chow call that evening but got to re-join my company on the next morning log ship, so all was good save the article 15 for coming back late from R&R (one week's Spec 4 pay deduction).

[Ron James]

At one time the Military ( Army ) had no provision for turning in excess items, Tools. equipment or what ever. In Korea in 1961 Prior to a IG inspection I watched them bury a large batch of hand tools that had been erroneously ordered. This was brand new ( I equipped my truck toolbox very well ) and never used, heavy duty, hand tools. No other way to dispose of it with out a PITA Report of Survey. It was only later ( mid to late 60's? ) that you were allowed to turn in any excess as " found on post " with out question. I have heard of even Trucks and Jeeps being buried.

[cwartyman]

When we were deploying for Desert Shield our unit ordered new medium Alice packs as the ones we were issued were in dubious condition. After 7 months in the desert we deployed back to our home base. After being home 2 months a truck pulls up to our s-4 section and unloads boxes of Alice packs OIC of s-4 shop is called and is told that you ordered them they are here and they are yours. The OIC makes some phone calls because as an F-18 unit attached to a MAG we do not keep our own supply of 782 gear it is drawn from MAG , the OIC is told that those items do not exist as when the first shot was fired they were written off as combat lost. They were combat lost before we ever got them. Well now s-4 is sitting with 200 brand new medium Camo Alice packs that we have no use for so he bucks it up to the C.O. who tells the Warrant Officer to give them out to the troops. So everyone in the unit was given one and MAG was still issuing the ratty type we went overseas with. All the 782 gear we went overseas with was written off as combat lost. I dont believe it was even brought back as all they cared about was the weapons, I watched supply take razor blades to brand new unopened MOPP suits.

[Griff Murphey]

When people talk about the USMC keeping stuff until it wears ALL THE WAY OUT I do not think they are kidding. Most of my 782 gear issued to me in 3rd Mar Div, 1975, was dated 1940's. The only "new" stuff was the pistol belt, flak jacket, and clip-on canteen cover/plastic canteen. I had previously had the new nylon stuff in Army ROTC. The basic USMC antitank weapon was still the 3.5" rocket launcher fired by "D" cell batteries, and the Army had had the 90mm recoilless rifle for 10 years. Marine officers had never heard of it... "Nawww, doc, you mean the 106!"

Maybe this is more a criticism of the Naval Dental Corps than the USMC, but we had lots of old stuff there as well. I had to get dental school classmates stateside in other branches of the service to cumshaw tooth colored filling material and send it to me, as for many months, we had NONE in the 3rd Marine Division. I heard one story about a dentist who put a bunch of silver amalgams in some Colonel's front teeth and the guy complained... well, that was all we had... We were always injecting people with local anesthetic out of date by many years, because it was (once again) all we had. Then there were the power outages, nothing like it when you are in the middle of a procedure....

[Art]

When we were deploying for Desert Shield our unit ordered new medium Alice packs as the ones we were issued were in dubious condition. After 7 months in the desert we deployed back to our home base. After being home 2 months a truck pulls up to our s-4 section and unloads boxes of Alice packs OIC of s-4 shop is called and is told that you ordered them they are here and they are yours. The OIC makes some phone calls because as an F-18 unit attached to a MAG we do not keep our own supply of 782 gear it is drawn from MAG , the OIC is told that those items do not exist as when the first shot was fired they were written off as combat lost. They were combat lost before we ever got them. Well now s-4 is sitting with 200 brand new medium Camo Alice packs that we have no use for so he bucks it up to the C.O. who tells the Warrant Officer to give them out to the troops. So everyone in the unit was given one and MAG was still issuing the ratty type we went overseas with. All the 782 gear we went overseas with was written off as combat lost. I dont believe it was even brought back as all they cared about was the weapons, I watched supply take razor blades to brand new unopened MOPP suits.

I haven't chimed in on this but what the heck. The loss, waste, givaways of web gear and uniforms along with the constant "updating" of uniforms is one of the biggest areas of waste. It existed when I was in and continues today except, apparently, for the above mentioned Marine Corps.

By the way, the single biggest "waste fraud and abuse" I saw was in Korea. My favorite example was the Cummins generator that was "loaned" to the local villiage to provide free electricity to the assorted merchants, whores and bartenders who provided assorted services to the G.I.s at the battery I was attached to. Oh yeah, we gave 'em the diesel to run it too.

[Weasel]

I know this isn't what happen years a go but seeing how this thread is about the military wasting money here is a good example of it. Just think how much this is going to cost because they will have to retrofit the old ones also. You know they want get away with just doing this modification on the new ones.

http://www.military.com/news/article/navy-new-subs-to-be-designed-for-women.html

[Griff Murphey]

Bidets in the heads?

[RCK]

While at Knox in 1962 just of Basic we were training for small engine repair. All range generators were sent in for replacement of the fire extinguishers mounted on the frame. We mounted the new extinguishers and stacked the old "unused" ones in a pile. We checked what to do with the old ones and were told to lay them out on the pavement in a liong line. Later that day a tank was driven back and forth over the old extinguishers. Lots of flat scrap metal!

[Guamsst]

The annual budget is the biggest example of "fraud waste and abuse" I have seen in the military. It's not the amount, but how they work it that gets me. If they give your unit $2mil and you spend $1.5mil then next year they cut the budget by $.5 mil. Which almost makes sense. But next year you may need the whole $2mil so to protect yourself at the end of the year you waste $.5mil to make sure you don't lose it next year. There is no real reward for being thrifty. It is even called "end of year money"
And that's where the majority of your $400 trashcans and $900 hammers come from.

[Maury Krupp]

...It's not the amount, but how they work it that gets me. If they give your unit $2mil and you spend $1.5mil then next year they cut the budget by $.5 mil...

It's called "zero based budgeting" and was brought to you by jimmy carter. The thinking(?) is if you need "X" amount of O&M funds to run an organization this year you'll only need "X" amount next year.

Of course that doesn't account for inflation, normal wear and tear (including the increased need and cost of replacement parts as equipment gets older), increased ops tempo, and all the other unplanned things that can eat up O&M funds in a hurry.

Nor can you set aside or save up any funds; even if you know you're going to need it next year. If it's not spent by the end of the FY it's gone.


...that's where the majority of your $400 trashcans and $900 hammers come from.
I think those are the result of either milspecs run amok, contractors making proprietary items when off-the-shelf would do, or comparing apples to oranges.

I recall once our supply guy filed a FW&A on the price of what he thought was a plain sheet of plexiglass. Turns out it was special stuff for submarines that didn't gas off any carcinogenic chemicals into the atmosphere.

Maury

[John Sukey]

OK, just for the heck of it some joker in supply ordered a TANK! Not what the Air guard was gonna do with a tank is a mystery. They stopped it before it went through.

Oh by the way, did you know there is a federal stock number for KILTS and BAGPIPES? The Air force has a pipe band!

[Dieppe42]

OK, just for the heck of it some joker in supply ordered a TANK! Not what the Air guard was gonna do with a tank is a mystery. They stopped it before it went through.

Oh by the way, did you know there is a federal stock number for KILTS and BAGPIPES? The Air force has a pipe band!

It's the USAR Pipe Band and they are very good, they volunteer on top of their normal duties.

Philip
Piper
Los Gatos-Monte Sereno Police Pipes and Drums.

[101VooDoo]

Well, it wasn't the worse abuse I saw in 30 years of AD, but it was the most fun. When we arrived in Bahrain for Desert Shield, we loaded up 4x30rd M-16 magazines for each of our airmen, 132 of us, rounded up to 150 for good measure. When Desert Storm was over, and we were getting ready to rotate home, it was decided that it was far to much work to de-mag, count and turn in the ammo, so we spent a day on the beach firing off 20,000 rounds of 5.56 - even let some of the MAG 11 guys help out.

Jim

[cwartyman]

voodoo,
Were you at Sheik Isa AB? I was at Sheik Isa from Aug 21,1990 to March 13, 1991 we didnt even have enough ammo to sight in our M-16's as all the training ammo we went with got shipped up to the 82 AB after they blew away a huge herd of camels one night not too long after we got there and there wasnt much ammo in country at that time. I went over with MAG 70 originally but we then became MAG 11 which was our usual MAG

[101VooDoo]

cwartyman,

Yes, Sheik Isa AB 7 Dec 90 - 12 Apr 91. Was with the 152d Tactical Recon Group/35th Tactical Fighter Wing.

Jim

[Sean P Gilday]

Baghdad, August 2005.
Brigade getting ready to return CONUS, connexs loaded to bursting.

Bn Supply dumpster filled with New in the white box 30 rd Mags, Surefire IR weapon lights, Nomex gloves, odd KAC M4 rail system new in the box.

Considering I was never issued a Surefire I made sure to grab one. We also had 85 EO Techs and couldnt find a Active Duty unit to take them, but we werent supposed to bring them back. 2 days before we go home the SF took them . Everything else was trashed. I had 500 rds of M118LR and could not find anyone who would take it.

Made me sick

[M1CHAZZ]

built new buildings & repaved runway at Glenview NAS 2yrs before closing it!!!!

[cwartyman]

Jim,
Did you get to see the Bob Hope USO tour when they came to see us? That was one of the best days I had over there and will never forget that they all gave up their time to come their and entertain us for a couple hours and take our minds off what everyone knew was going to happen sooner or later. I used to get a kick out of seeing your guys RF4's thundering down the runway and being in awe as the the pressure wave hit me never had that happen with our 18's. Too bad we didnt finish the job in 91.
Mack

[Ron James]

While at Knox in 1962 just of Basic we were training for small engine repair. All range generators were sent in for replacement of the fire extinguishers mounted on the frame. We mounted the new extinguishers and stacked the old "unused" ones in a pile. We checked what to do with the old ones and were told to lay them out on the pavement in a liong line. Later that day a tank was driven back and forth over the old extinguishers. Lots of flat scrap metal!

Believe or not, it is cheaper to throw them away than it is to refurbish them, go figure.

[101VooDoo]

Mack,

I did get to see the Bob Hope show, had a pretty good spot just to the right of the stage. Never realized Bob used cue cards until then. Yeah the RF4 made a lot of noise, my hearing's still shot from that deployment. I did like seeing the A6s take off, carrying 12 CBUs. Hell of an airplane.

You're right about not finishing it, damn shame. Everyone stateside got squeamish after the MAG 11 Massacre on the road out of Kuwait City. Another two days and we could have ended the whole mess once and for all. My oldest son, who was 4 when I deployed to DS, has done two tours in Iraq, and is currently deployed in Afghanistan (so much for 'dwell' time). Breaks my heart that our kids our now fighting the same enemy we did, 20 years on.

Jim

[cwartyman]

Jim,
The A-6's were the only A/C at Sheik Isa that carried napalm while we were there. I also got to see alot of the hud tapes from the war and yes MAG-11 really tore up the road to Basra. Got to watch a HUD tape from a mission our C.O. was on where he spotted a SCUD being pushed into a firehouse he pickled 2 MK83's onto the firehouse and got great secondaries captured on the strike cam. Remember the Patriots going off that night? I woke up to the sound of rain hitting the tent but its wasnt rain it was the shrapnel from both missiles. Brooke Shields was so attractive in person as was the girl from Head of the Class. I think us stopping the advance had more to due with the pressure the Egyptians and Syrians put on Bush than us killing everything that was leaving Kuwait. They didnt want Saddam out of power and only signed on to the coalition so they could say they stood up for a fellow arab nation. Unfortunately Bush kowtowed to the UN and to the arabs . His son had bigger brass ones than he did and wasnt interested in what the UN had to say at all. Now we find our kids and nieces and nephews are still over there and we are getting involved in a civil war in Libya(where we have no reason to be) and Nobama wont persue any of it to the full measure he will only end up getting more of our boys killed and end up with nothing to show for it.
Mack

[cwartyman]

Jim,
Please when you speak to your son give him my thanks for his service and going to places where he should not have to have gone if we were allowed to do it right the first time.
Mack

[noslack327]

in the early seventies I had to take a hammer to several hundred M14 mags and put them in the trash, My AZ NG unit was rearming with M16's.

[101VooDoo]

Will do Mack. Still have pieces of the SCUD in my footlocker.

Jim

[Mike in Michigan]

1968 aboard the USS Ranger CVA-61. I was assigned to a work party bringing up ordnance from the magazines to be loaded on aircraft going to visit Charley and friends. It was the last air ops before heading back to the States. The bombs were loaded on push carts, placed in elevators and raised to the hangar deck for loading on the aircraft. The carts were supposed to be stacked and returned to the magazines for storage. The PO incharge on the Hangar Deck decided it was not worth the effort and time so we were ordered to shove them over the side. About 15 of them went into the Gulf of Tonkin before a CPO saw what was happening and put a stop to it.

[csm14thbn]

I am living through it right now in Iraq! If the public knew the amount of waste going on here heads would roll! I am not talking about magazines in dumpsters or anything like that I am talking in the millions or more!

[0440]

Second Lt's.............

[Liam]

As an Army linguist, we took our language studies just after BASIC, and before AIT. Before AIT because of the length of time it takes to do the background for the TSSI clearances required to access the materials utilized in AIT. My very expensive basic Russian course was 47-weeks long. Chinese and Arabic even longer. And they were given at the beautiful Defense Language Institute in Monterey, CA. Just up the hill from Monterey Bay, Steinbeck's Cannery Row, etc. So, I had over a year of time in when I arrived at AIT. Well, just as we undertook the demanding classified studies in varied shifts, a group of 4 or 5 fellow linguists announced they were gay. All at once, which suggested some planning was involved. This was 1985, prior to "don't ask, don't tell." This announcement put the breaks on their forward motion through the system. They all served continual casual duty until I moved on the Fort Devens for additional studies on Electronic Warfare. Don't know what happened to them. Last I saw, they were trimming hedges at Goodfellow AFB, TX. What I do know is that they took advantage of the top-rate language training, and when required to start applying those expensive, tax-payer funded skills, they opted out. And were probably drummed out.

[fjruple]

built new buildings & repaved runway at Glenview NAS 2yrs before closing it!!!!

I seen the same thing take place in the Philadelphia Naval Yard. The Navy gave two painting contracts to two different contractors accidentally. A painting contract is a contract and must be completed. Unwilling to admit the mistake the Navy let one contractor start painting on one side the building and the other contractor to start on the opposite end! After each contractor painted over each others work, the Navy tore the building six months later and within two years the Philadelphia Naval Yard was closed! Don't you love your tax paying dollars at work.

[Major Tom]

THE biggest government waste was VIETNAM! Period!

[Mike in NC]

Not my story, but from my father who was in the Marines from 1951 to 1953. When he was stationed at Treasure Island in CA, he saw a Navy officer doing inventory of leather flight jackets. They wanted to throw them away, so they took brand new jackets and cut them with a knife so they could be classified as damaged and discarded. I didn't see it, but that was his story.

[RETREAD123456]

In late '71. I was at FUTEMA MCAS OKINAWA as a E4. Was assigned to a hilltop warehouse complex that was receiving gear and equipment from RVN as the "standout was in full swing
Reported for duty one day and saw a brand new Caterpillar Bulldozer behind the gate. My supervisor, S/SGT. XYZ said it had come in the night before with NO paperwork
It was there all of 2 days and it was gone. Asked the S/SGT where it went and he said it went for a swim..... I think it was dumped at sea, cause it was giving some logistic guys a headache
I wonder what Uncle Sam had pain for it ?

[Fred]

Back in 1992, an Army Corps Of Engineers Major at Jefferson Barracks pointed out to me some sinkholes on a map where the army had buried several trucks that were full of outdated weapons. Garands and trapdoor Springfield’s mostly. The trucks were driven into bulldozer enlarged sinkholes on some high ground where the trucks were buried under dirt pushed over them.

[Andouille]

This thread hasn't had any activity for a while so I thought to resurrect it.

After the cease fire in 1973, the military was delivering beaucoup equipment to South Viet Nam because anything they had at the end of the cease fire period could be replaced if later damaged. Part of the equipment consisted of C-130 aircraft that were parked on the flight line at Than Son Nhut, not going anywhere because VNAF had not aircrew trained to fly them or maintenance people trained to take care of them.

Evidently that was later rectified at least in part because a VNAF Major did yeoman service flying the last one out to Thailand right at the end of the collapse in April 1975. It's parked at Little Rock AFB.

http://www.patriotfiles.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40806

[m1ashooter]

I got to be part of the team that decided what to spend the remaining bases year end left over budget money on at Eielson AFB Alaska. It was like a feeding frenzy. I thought spending 50,000 on flowers to brighten up the housing are for the 90 days of good weather was a waste.

[lyman]

I did not serve, but did know a few guys that were Quartermasters,

they were given a budget, and want list at the beginning of the year,
if funds were left near the end of the FY, they were told to spend it,
on whatever, they just had to have a 0 balance or slight negative to guarantee the funds would be appropriated for the next cycle

they ordered new office equipment , pens, paper, tents, tires , just at random to spend the cash,

in came the new desk, the old went to another depot for sales or tossed,

[Former Cav]

just think of all those hueys shoved off the decks of aircraft carriers to make room for the Vietnamese.
Nobody addresses the "waste" of 59xxx LIVES, and about 150 to 300K wounded and crippled for life either.
I'm not saying this to be "mean". but I am one of the crippled whom the va and us govt has NOT honored "their contract" with.

[RED]

IIRC, In February, 1969 The USS Saratoga CVA-60 came out the yards after being refurbed with all the latest and greatest electronics, radars, and equipment that existed at the time. Including a hands-off Automatic Carrier Landing System (ACLS). Carrier Air Group Three (CAG -3) had also been updated and went aboard in March. We had two fighter squadrons with 14 brand spanking new F-4J's each, and three attack squadrons (1, A-6 and 2 A-7) all equipped with the latest and greatest aircraft and systems. You are looking at maybe $100 million invested and our destination was WestPac.

We had a little stopover in the Caribbean for a Operational Readiness Inspection and it was a nightmare. The ship failed miserably. So, we were sent to the Mediterranean and the USS Kennedy was sent in our place. Within 2 months our squadron (VF-31) was down to 2 aircraft that were "combat ready," with operable radar systems and could have fired Sparrow III missiles, and few more of the 14 could be flown and still use Sidewinders. That went on for months and then our E-9 Maintenance discovered the reason the radars were down all the time was traced to a $1 capacitor in a particular module. The regs were to replace the module and those were all going (as they should have) to WestPac, so our chief replaced the capacitor with a heavier one and we had radar again!

The Admiral went ape sh!t! Our Skipper and the Chief was put in hack and were ordered to throw the new capacitors away! Going around the supply system was a huge no no... It was late 1972 before the Saratoga and CAG-3 got to Vietnam. She barely saw combat and was the last operational carrier to make that trip. All those spanking new F-4J's were by then not so spanking and those millions of dollars of new planes and systems were never used in combat.