Tipping point with standing

[PhillipM]

I shot two matches Saturday one an M1 and the next a vintage bolt both at 100 yards. I shot a 252 with the M1 and a 258 with the Mark I, placing 2nd with the M1 by 3 points and winning the vintage bolt which had just three competitors.

The strangest thing occured in standing with the 1903. After establishing natural point of aim it was as if the front sight was drawn to the black like a magnet. I wound up with all ten shots on a horizontal string about 2 1/2 inches high for a 79 with all shots on the SR1 repair center, the best I've ever done standing. I wish I had had a good scope stand and an 03 sight mike, it may have made a lot of difference. A decent coat is on the way, I shot this in a T-shirt.

That aside, my position holding me in the black was such a good, comfortable feeling I'm sure that aided in my confidence and score. The zone is such a good place to be! Perfect practice makes perfect, I suppose.

My loads were nothing to write home about, 46.5 IMR 4895 and a 150 grain boat tail spire point Speer. I settled on that when I read one of Maury's posts about calling it macaroni and practicing standing! Sage advise.

[Maury Krupp]

It is a good feeling when that front sight seems to sit in the black and stay there. It can be a bit mesmerizing to stand there and look at it; sometimes I almost forget to squeeze the trigger it's so pretty.

That's why dryfiring is so important. It trains your eye and finger to see the shot and take it almost without thinking.

I've always known it works but let myself slack off for a while and it showed. I was having a hard time finding my NPA and when the front sight did settle for a fraction of a second I had to think about pulling the trigger (by which time the front sight was moving again). Since then I've become a "born again dryfirer" and do it almost every night.

It's better than the crap that's on TV :63:

Maury

[PhillipM]

I've been dry firing on the water fill port of my travel trailer, 52 yards away. Yesterday I was doing that and realized it's still light, the range is three miles down the road and I have ammo. We have two 18" steel gongs at 225 yards, very satisfying to hear BOOM, SPLANG! I've found the best way to ensure I won't get lazy and shoot at them prone is to leave my sling at home. :rolleyes:

[Dan Shapiro]

"It is a good feeling when that front sight seems to sit in the black and stay there."

Hee hee. Been there, done that. You're right. It's just so beautiful you just want to LOOK at it.

[PhillipM]

Do you use 6-o'clock or center hold shooting standing? I've been shooting point of aim all my life, in prone I can overcome it but something makes me pull the trigger when the sight crosses the black. Do I retrain or just dial down a click (if I ever get a sight mic for my 03).

http://i45.servimg.com/u/f45/15/55/99/36/p1060410.jpg

[Maury Krupp]

I use a Center hold for everything. It may not be as precise as a 6 o'clock but it's precise enough and I just find it easier.

For Standing I think the black-on-black camoflagues my wobble area a little making the sight seem steadier and me less prone to snatching the trigger.

Besides "It's in the black break the shot" guarantees me at least a 9 :icon_wink:

Maury

[C5M1]

Always used the center hold for everything except 600. Found the inverted flat tire hold worked very well for me at 6. Just had to remember not to use it at the other ranges.


regards, dennis

[Greg Ficklin]

Now that you feel good about your position, and accepting the wobble area, try this....
Do not make the gun fire as a conscious effort, as in..." There it is..Take It ". Accept the wobble and "gut out" the trigger by slowly adding pressure, (or not adding) based on sight alignment. Eventually it will fire, and you will have the image of where the sight was in your mind when it finally breaks. This is called "gutting out the trigger" or interrupted trigger control. With this technique you will always be in the black unless you just shank one from a lack of patience, or concentration. This is how 5 min holders still shoot 10's and X's. This will eventually wire your brain to only add pressure with perfect alignment, and the shots will eventually break with perfect alignment from small increments of pressure and not from deciding to take the shot. Grabbing or taking the shot causes misalignment that you do not see. This is a mental discipline that will pay off in your scores. Gut out that trigger and let them fall when they fall. It really isn't a surprise, because you fully expect to fire that round, but it went out in it's own time while concentrating on sight alignment and focus. It's like firing from your eyeball and not from your finger, or conscious effort.

[PhillipM]

Now that you feel good about your position, and accepting the wobble area, try this....
Do not make the gun fire as a conscious effort, as in..." There it is..Take It ". Accept the wobble and "gut out" the trigger by slowly adding pressure, (or not adding) based on sight alignment. Eventually it will fire, and you will have the image of where the sight was in your mind when it finally breaks. This is called "gutting out the trigger" or interrupted trigger control. With this technique you will always be in the black unless you just shank one from a lack of patience, or concentration. This is how 5 min holders still shoot 10's and X's. This will eventually wire your brain to only add pressure with perfect alignment, and the shots will eventually break with perfect alignment from small increments of pressure and not from deciding to take the shot. Grabbing or taking the shot causes misalignment that you do not see. This is a mental discipline that will pay off in your scores. Gut out that trigger and let them fall when they fall. It really isn't a surprise, because you fully expect to fire that round, but it went out in it's own time while concentrating on sight alignment and focus. It's like firing from your eyeball and not from your finger, or conscious effort.

Thank you for that

[PhillipM]

Now that you feel good about your position, and accepting the wobble area, try this....
Do not make the gun fire as a conscious effort, as in..." There it is..Take It ". Accept the wobble and "gut out" the trigger by slowly adding pressure, (or not adding) based on sight alignment. Eventually it will fire, and you will have the image of where the sight was in your mind when it finally breaks. This is called "gutting out the trigger" or interrupted trigger control. With this technique you will always be in the black unless you just shank one from a lack of patience, or concentration. This is how 5 min holders still shoot 10's and X's. This will eventually wire your brain to only add pressure with perfect alignment, and the shots will eventually break with perfect alignment from small increments of pressure and not from deciding to take the shot. Grabbing or taking the shot causes misalignment that you do not see. This is a mental discipline that will pay off in your scores. Gut out that trigger and let them fall when they fall. It really isn't a surprise, because you fully expect to fire that round, but it went out in it's own time while concentrating on sight alignment and focus. It's like firing from your eyeball and not from your finger, or conscious effort.

I shot a 200 yard practice match with some friends Saturday and drug out my first M1, an SA Inc. that has a 6 groove 1:11" twist barrel. With lockbar stock sights I shot an 82 with an excellent, for me, group that just wasn't centered on the target. I know I called a couple left but I don't know why the whole group is left. I'm trying to approach from left to right and break the shot so I guess it could be a timing issue too. A decent scope stand where I can see what's happening during standing is next on the gear list.

After we were done I had some more ammo so decided to shoot standing at the gongs against the berm. Being lazy I used a clip and found using the interrupted method I milked the trigger and shot a double. I guess I need better follow through too!

http://i45.servimg.com/u/f45/15/55/99/36/standi10.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=149&u=15559936)

[Greg Ficklin]

If that was an offhand group, then you are definitely getting the hang of it. Don't try to approach the target from any particular direction. Establish NPA on your frame, and hold on your sight picture and allow your brain to do the rest. You may find that you need a particular windage adjustment for your standing slowfire that is different from your other positions. This is not uncommon because of head placement, recoil effects without the sling, or particular behavior of the rifle. If you just allow the hammer to fall while looking at the front sight, you will know where it was. In a match, take your sighters from standing, and dry fire in prep. Trust your call. If it looked good but came up left, be bold and make a sight change. As for a doubling Garand, I had one too. It can be a real PITA. If it is prone to doubling with correct trigger control, you need to establish a bit more second stage movement. Because of recoil, these rifles need a small bit of second stage movement (creep) to prevent doubling. In a good trigger job, it is smooth and almost imperceptible, but can be seen. Getting a Garand trigger down to 4.5 pounds often reduces sear engagement to the point that it will double. It will make you alter your trigger control to prevent it, and cost you points. Just a touch of creep will fix it.
It is easy to do with a piece of 400 grit emery cloth.