New after market copy of Unertl 8 power

[pelago]

i can not recall where i read it or who said it, but i distinctly remember talk of a company putting together a good reliable replica of the unertl 8 power

I would like to find out, i would buy one if price was reasonable, and i would think that a quality scope could be had for 300.00 to 500.00, i know pretty high on the big end but i also know what a fiasco the gibbs scopes have turned out to be and they were and are not cheap, On my target at the Eastern games XXX XXXXX had a gibbs reproduction A4
and it was off paper at 300 yards and no matter what the man did, it would not change, he could do nothing, he finished the match with a borrowed riffle,

day before the match there was a "class/lecture/orientation" whatever you wanted to call it, I attended it, and it was basically a "Buy Gibbs" talk and he discussed the problems with scopes and said he would offer a return/upgrade for so many dollars
then they said that the scope was not intended for anything over 100 yards..

Sorry, but i researched all sales literature and sales ads and could find nothing that said the "scope good for 100 yards only"

wasn't the gibbs repro a china made scope???

Yes i would pay for a reliable scope, in a heartbeat, I have a '41 USMC but sure aint gonna take it out and shoot it, hell my grandkids could go to college for what it is worth

comments???
regards,
ira

[Greg Ficklin]

A rep from Leatherwood/Hi-Lux at the Eastern games was indeed talking about a Unertl repro. But there is nothing yet on their site about it. I'm sure we will learn more about the progress while at Perry, maybe even a prototype to see.
I was at the VSM clinic you spoke of. It was a good opportunity for Val to explain the problems they have had with the early scopes, and allow us to see the improved version. I met Val at the GSM Master instructor course at Butner a few years ago. He's a good guy, and huge supporter of the CMP and GSM games matches by donating the prize rifle since the 900 Agg was introduced.
Leatherwood/Hi-Lux knows that they will have to get the Unertl right and bring it in at a reasonable price. I heard around $700 give or take, which ain't bad if the quality is there.

[pelago]

thanks fick, i just sent them a note and simply asked them
who knows might be something soon to come out
regards and look forward to competing against you at Perry,
regards
Ira

[Marine A5 Sniper Rifle]

I have a '41 USMC but sure aint gonna take it out and shoot it, hell my grandkids could go to college for what it is worth
comments???regards, ira

You might cover one semester. Check out tuition costs these days.

Good luck to all of you at Perry next year.

jt

[pelago]

get your checkbooks out, just received this from Hi Lux very promising and looking forward to next shootable project

"Hello Mr. Jones. Yes, we are in the process of manufacturing that scope. Should be available in late September. We will let you know
once if becomes available.

Chris Tully
Sales Manager""

[Jim in Salt Lake]

My history with the Unertl clone started at the SHOT show in January, "it'll be out in the spring." Then, "it'll be out in June," then August, now late September. They must be having some issues.....and they want to do it right.

[pelago]

**to do it right.**
something to be said about that, want another repro piece of junk that came with the gibbs?? i dont

[Jim in Salt Lake]

Yep, they've been working on this for a couple of years it seems. I hope they're close.

[1903shooter]

Unertl in Las Vegas worked on having it done for several years also. But they went bankrupt before they could find anywhere they could have quality micrometer rear and front mounts made at an affordable price. They were thinking that could could produce new ones for about $1200 to $1500. But why would anyone pay that much for a copy when you can buy original Unertl target scopes for almost half that price. Even IF they can be made for "around $700 give or take". Why buy a copy when you can get a real Unertl for that same price??? Sure a Unertl target scope might not look Exactly like an original Unertl USMC 8X Sniper scope but I would rather have a Unertl target scope that I could shoot with then a copy of a Unertl Sniper scope scope that looked good and wasn't the quality of an original. No matter what you do, a copy is still just a copy that will never be worth more then half of what you paid for it. A REAL Unertl will always sell for close too or more then you paid for it. Just my 2 cents worth.


Yep, they've been working on this for a couple of years it seems. I hope they're close.

[Greg Ficklin]

That's just it, you cannot get an 8X Unertl for $700 anymore. The 8X is the most sought after and go for $1300 or more. The 6X is also very good for the CMP sniper game and are around $600 if you can find one. I gave $550 for my 6X Unertl this year and I thought it was a real bargain. I am optimistic that these repro Unertls will be good scopes. They aren't as complicated as many of the bargain scopes available with all the bells and whistles people want these days . A laptop computer is way more complicated and cost the same. There is no reason these new scopes cannot be as good as the originals. My jap repro Win 52 is proof that it can be done.
A reproduction is just that, a reproduction, not a cheap copy. A cheap copy will not do. They learned that with the A5 fiasco. If they want to sell me one they have to get it right. I think they can do it.

[DMark]

.... A cheap copy will not do. They learned that with the A5 fiasco.....
Greg,

What and Who are you referring to in regard to the A5 fiasco? I must of missed that one. :icon_scratch:

Thanks,

Mark

[MJ1]

I wish you guys good luck in this venture. Poor copies suck.

[Greg Ficklin]

I was referring to the scopes on the Gibbs repro A4. They just weren't up to the task of competition in the CMP vintage sniper matches. They have since been improved, and I am sure they are fine now. For the Unertl reproduction to be successful, it must be indistinguishable from the vintage scopes, and not just a look alike that cannot perform. The standard of performance of vintage Unertl scopes is widely known. A true reproduction should meet or exceed that standard. A good example of this would be the Japanese manufactured 52 Winchester sporter from the early to mid 90's. These rifles are every bit as good as the originals, and have risen in value as a faithful reproduction giving nothing away to the originals with respect to quality. That is the goal of any reproduction.

[jgaynor]

FWIW the early M73B1 replicas offered by Gibbs were marked M73G1 They also had the manufacturer's name "FM (famous maker) Optics" on the tube. A couple of months ago Val Forgett posted that he had found a new supplier and that the new scopes would be marked M73G2. He was offering a trade-in upgrade to purchasers of the G1 at a discounted price.

The real issue here is not where a scope is made but the quality of materials and engineering utilized and the extent of quality control exercised during the manufacturing process. All of this stuff costs money and as always you get what you pay for.

Regards,
Jim

[1903shooter]

I would be more then a little surprised if any reproduction of a Unertl came even close to the originals. We'll just have to wait and see.

[DMark]

I was referring to the scopes on the Gibbs repro A4......
Understand now.

Based on your first comment, I thought that somebody had tried to make a copy of the Winchester A5.

Thanks for the reply.

[Greg Ficklin]

There is nothing magical, or a mysterious trade secret to the quality of Unertl scopes. They used good materials, and built the adjusters to last a lifetime. They are just straight tube telescopes with a secure mounting and adjustment system. This is old technology that just works. Today's full featured hydrogen filled optics with internal adjustment, state of the art coatings, and superior glass are standard on even the most economical scope. With today's technology, these scopes could be made even better than the originals at a fraction of the costs. The price per unit will be high because the demand will be low when compared to high volume units that spread the cost of manufacturing over thousands of unit buyers. Take your smart phone, or laptop computer into consideration. These things use state of the art micro processors, memory chips, and 21st century battery technology. They pull components from dozens of manufactures, each with a profit margin and manufacturing costs. But they are so affordable that everyone has one. They are cheap because the demand dictates that they make these things in the millions of units and not for any lack of quality or simplistic design. The old tube scopes are simple, and there is no reason they cannot be made as good or better than the originals.

[DMark]

I think what is really comes down to is the old saying...., "The Prefect is the Enemy of the Good."

No question that an Unertl is the Prefect example of the straight tube telescope art.

But, it has become a unrealistic reach for most due to the high cost now being asked for Unertl. Its now a collector piece for many.

A Good copy would fill the desire for many who wish to shoot a period-like scope.

[Greg Ficklin]

The demand for theses things is high enough at this time to make reproduction a profitable endeavor at very low production given the inflated cost of the original non USMC scopes. There is no reason to insist on an ultra rare USMC scope for use on a tribute 03 sniper. The price for one of these represents collector value in the same way that an original E body Hemi Cuda is worth nearly 1 million dollars. The collector demand is higher than the known supply. The non USMC Unertl 8X was made into the mid seventies, and was continued by the Davis Optical Co into the mid 80's. Lower and lower demand for old technology eventually made these items obsolete and unprofitable. They are not particularly rare but higher demand today inflates prices. With a slow economy many of these things are coming out of the woodwork with the innovation of web based classifieds like Ebay.
Most scopes of this type are found in the north eastern US where smallbore leagues, and post war gun clubs were numerous.

[DMark]

.... There is no reason to insist on an ultra rare USMC scope for use on a tribute 03 sniper. The price for one of these represents collector value in the same way that an original E body Hemi Cuda is worth nearly 1 million dollars....
Here is a current example that backs up Greg's comments.

Only $3800.00 with free shipping! :eek:

http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=51761

Pound-for-Pound, a Unertl USMC Sniper might be worth more than a Hemi Cuda! :icon_lol:

If that is the going rate for an USMC scope, then the "plain-jane" 8x Unertl will be crossing into the $2000.00 range.

This reinforces the idea for a $600-800 copy that somebody can go out and shoot with.