Rules for Posers

[blackhawknj]

Or "poseurs". I prefer that word. With the War on Terror having made military service patriotic again, and service in Vietnam now seen as something noble and honorable and manly, a new crop of poseurs has arisen. A cousin and I came up some rules for them:
1. Poseurs are ALWAY Special Forces, "Green Berets", "Specops", SOGs, Rangers, LRRPS, Navy SEALs, snipers, always some sort of elite force, never a plain old infantryman-or a mortarman, a tanker, an artilleryman-or a medic. Or a support troop.
2. Since poseurs do not "have a life", the spend a lot of time reading Vietnam magazine, or in the military section of the larger bookstores. What books I have seen about Vietnam seem to be mostly about elite units, with an occasional memoir by a grunt, and I have seen next to nothing by support personnel. Who would read a book entitled Combat Cook or Vietnam Finance Clerk?
3. If a Vietnam poseur, their records were "lost" in the 1973 St. Louis Records Center fire, or are
"sealed" by "The Agency". If a current poseur, they work for a "hush hush" agency.
4. Poseurs never look the part, they look like the Pillsbury Dough Boy or the Michelin Tire Man.
They "can't exercise due to an injury" or have a "glandular disorder". But they are incredible crack shots.

[Bill D]

They also seem to have an inexhaustible supply of jungle cammies and boots.

[Griff Murphey]

It is a real interesting phenomenon. I had a very good personal friend in my profession who claimed to be a Navy Cross and purple heart awardee (among many other decorations) with 4 victories as an F6F Hellcat pilot. He claimed to have risen to the rank of 0-6 in the Naval Reserve. After our organization gave him a big award for his service, a skeptic who had access to his SSN checked him out with the POW NETWORK. Turned out it was all fabricated. When the need for pilots faded toward the end of WW2 he was sent to radar school, then discharged as a cadet. His sole decoration was the Ruptured Duck. Why not claim the honorable truth?

I had listened to his stories for 25 or more years. I don't think he realized how transparent the Internet made his lies. He has since passed away but this is not a nice legacy for friends to remember a person by.

Here in Dallas Ft. Worth there was a guy named Duckworth who claimed to be SF, dined out on it for years, I think the guy who wrote STOLEN VALOR busted him.

[Guamsst]

I always get excited when I meet someone who wasn't a hollywood style spec ops hero. Old guy here in town talked my ear off when he found out I was military. He told me all about going to his training in the navy and being put on a landing assault ship or something and about how he was not too dissapointed when the war ended as his ship was preparing for the landings on mainland Japan.

Also had a friend who was spec ops. He was Combat weather. Those are the guys who land in a place to see if it's safe for people to land there....LOL His big adventure was falling out of a helicopter, hurting his back and getting to be part of civil engineering before shipping out to Vietnam. Actually, he never got shipped to Vietnam. But he came real close...LOL

[m1ashooter]

Here is a sure way to ID a poser. The men I served with and myself never bragged about what we did nor have I met a veteran who did, other then tell tale tails to each other. The posers brag about themselves.

[Griff Murphey]

Here is the 180 degree difference. I was in San Antonio for my college reunion (ain't saying how many years...) and we were in FAST FREDDIES getting a burger. Next to me was a young man about 21 on crutches with a wounded warrior shirt, cast on his leg, and military haircut. I thanked him for his service. His response was: "Can't wait to get back!"

[blackhawknj]

Poseurs always have more war stories than any 10-20 real Spec Ops types-or real veterans-put together. And more "fruit salad" to "back it up." Where a lot of poseurs get caught is when they wear medals that either weren't authorized at the time or, like the MoH or the Distinguished Service Cross, are too easy to verify.

[cplnorton]

They always wear dogtags outside their clothes. Man I hate that! lol

[John Sukey]

My HEROIC military record. Too late for Korea and too early for Vietnam. For three years we wern't mad at anybody;)

[Griff Murphey]

I think a lot of people involved in the veteran scene look like bums. Scraggly hair, camo, sleeves torn off shirts. I kind of make an exception for the motorcycle guys such as the patriot guard as they perform a security service, although they are pretty rough looking, maybe that intimidates the crumb bums harassing military families today. I feel if you wear a uniform, or part of it, it should be as nice as when you stood inspection on ACDU.

[phil441]

There have been many occasions when I felt I should wear my old uniform. However, the buttons seem to be about a foot from the buttonholes. The uniforms still look sharp, I don't........

[Griff Murphey]

I have the same problem. I have one jungle fatigue jacket that was gigantic on me in 1975 and I can still squeeze into it, but it doesn't look too sharp. The stuff I wear now is all repro. Sometimes I do a 50's Army NCO, SFC in fact, for JCG shoots; all heavy starched, military crease, spit shined black boots, coffeecan cap. I think most people know it's a put-on. White nametape reads "SNORKEL."

[dryheat]

The uniforms still look sharp, I don't........
That's a good one.
I remember locally one of the newspaper publishers(nickname-"Duke" or something,as I recall. It's been a long time)got busted for the exact same thing. This was pre-internet, just some one doing some digging. After all, that's what reporters do.

[Art]

There have been many occasions when I felt I should wear my old uniform. However, the buttons seem to be about a foot from the buttonholes. The uniforms still look sharp, I don't........

Hmmmm, I read this and I was inspired to try on some old uniform stuff. I got a khaki uniform shirt from when I was in in the '60s. It would button but it was a snug fit. The pants are just too painful to mention, :icon_lol:. I was 5'8" and weighed about 145 back then. I've shrunk about a half inch and weigh 175 now. I'm really not a big old fat guy but age does take a toll :icon_e_sad:

[TomSudz]

Ask a suspected poser if he has any pictures of himself in the service. Since they don't, it's usually because the ex threw them away or the house burned down. Kinda the "dog ate my homework" excuse for scumbags.

[Griff Murphey]

Actually, I know at least two guys, real vets, whose exes disposed of their memorabilia. It's not the first thing most men think of removing from the house when they leave

[louis]

I've got a story for you all. I was a Marine during the near end of the Vietnam War. It was about 2 am if I remember correctly waiting in a double line on Okinawa to board a plane for Vietnam when some officer came in and announced that President Nixon stopped any more troops from going to Vietnam and walked up to me and said the line ends here. So make a long story short most of us went to Iwakuni Japan. I was there when the North invaded the south and troops where sent to Thailand and Danang. There was a fellow who I knew that volunteered for headquarters as a remington raider (for you new people that is a typewriter so he was a typest). When we got back he had this chest full of medals and I asked where did you get all of those? He tried to explain that he went to Vietnam and was awarded them. I was suspicious and looked into it, my first discovery was that he had two awards for being at two different places at the same time. I looked into it further by asking his friends about him and found out that he never left Japan! He and his sergeant wrote up their names on the awards lists as they saw fit! I reported this to our CO but nothing ever came of it and I was fed up enough not to make a career out of the usmc and left not too soon later. What a phony! Bragging to the younger Marines I almost punched him square in the face one day but he was a corporal and I was sergeant and wanted to stay one.

[louis]

Oh and by the way I still have my uniforms and the one that I had on the last day still hangs in my closet. I'm not a fat guy but hell I can't even get the jacket on and I can't even attempt the trousers! I think THE UNIFORM shrunk that has to be the only expanation, yep thats it they shrunk witout a doubt.

[blackhawknj]

My uniforms have hung in the closet since I retired from the Reserves in 1998, I have a foundling BDU field jacket-no badges-that I wear on cold weather. Turned in all my gear when I left Vietnam, traveled home in khakis. Haven't worn jungle boots or jungle fatigues since.
Also I was told that constantly telling "war stories" was the mark off an insecure bore. I may be boring but I'm sure not insecure.

[louis]

Well I too in occasion would tell war stories but over time I realized nobody listened and they looked at each other as if it was a tall tale. So I don't any more, another thing also the younger people want to hear stories about thugs and prison life more than what I have to say. I blame that one on the media always glorifying that type of lifestyle. One thing for sure I have to agree with blackhawknj I'm not insecure I enjoyed my time in service and never regreted it even if nobody ever told me thank you (I sure did get spit on, yelled at, cursed at, threatend and fought a lot) we just laughed at it all.

[browningautorifle]

It's like Loius say's, no one listens but they think you're telling tales. I realised this when I got out after time served and tried to be an armoured car guard. People would ask questions and I would answer straight up without though. I found out later they thought I was crazy. (So what if I am?) I actually had a young woman (my partner at the time) say "Hold it, are these just stories or did this happen?" That's when I realized civvies don't have much of a life.

Later while I was still serving with the reserves I found out my unit was deploying to Afghanistan. I was in the middle of a medical release so I was done for. I told the young troops not to tell stories when they came back because these people wouldn't understand and it would be held against them. One individual I keep in touch with didn't listen and has now found out it's true. It's cool to have been over there, but when you tell them about a particular firefight or major incident they have nothing to compare to so they look at you strangely.

I expect very shortly to have the wanna be soldiers come forward claiming to have been in the recent unpleasantness.

[Jon Field]

I found you could talk to those who had been through it, but that was it. To everyone else you were either a good joker or story teller, because they could not comprehend something like combat. I remember when we landed at Norton AFB, we went through the administrative red tape and then an Air Force full bird Colnel told us " Things have change here in the US, you need to change out of those Marine uniforms, you were safer in the jungles of Viet Nam than on the street of LA." Over the nest 2 hours we were departing by bus, taxi's, family cars, I was about the last to leave waiting on an uncle, and I distinctly remember that not one Marine, had changed out of uniform. I stayed with my uncle and cousins for about 2 weeks before I finally bought a car and headed for Maine. It was a nice little 68 Cougar, 289, 3 speed, I got stopped on the PA turnpike, I topped a hill, doing about 105 and the state trooper was under a bridge about a 1/2 mile ahead, his lights came on and I just slowed down and pulled in behind him. He walked up to the window, got my license and registration, walked to the back bumper, came back and said, "you sure slowed it down fast", I said Yes Sir, it's got those new disc brakes on the front. He saw my Winter Service Marine green blouse hanging in the rear window, Sgt strpies and ribbons, he said, "You on your way home", I said Yes Sir! He reached in the car, shook my hand, patted me on the shoulder and said, "Thanks for want you did and for want you went through, now keep it on 80 and you be all right, but be careful, get home safe." That was the only thanks I really enjoyed for the whole 40 years since. But you know if I could do it again, I believe I'd go if I could!!

[Thaine]

Spent 22 years as a Navy Tradevman, retiring as a TDC in ’88. One of the funniest “posers” I have seen was a kid who came to FASOTRAGRULANT Det Brunswick when I was there in the last half of the 70’s as a TD1 (E-6 to those that don’t habla Navy). He checked in as a TD3 with about 3-4 rows of ribbons. Claimed to be a cross rate from the AQ (Aviation Fire Control Tech) rate. Guys finally got tired of his BS and one of them asked me how he could have done all this when his LES showed he wasn’t over 2 for pay yet. I had access to his files and pulled them. It was so was easy to trace his career. Boot camp, 2 weeks leave, NATTC Memphis (in on orders to be an AQ – out as a TD3), 2 weeks leave and then to us. My intent was to jack him up at the next uniform inspection when he was in full glory, but the other TD1 on our shift felt sorry for him and let the Chiefs know. Only guy I ever saw that made PO2 three times before he managed to sew it on.
Best non poser I knew was a Navy Lt. (O3) that only wore his top three decorations when in daily uniform. Wasn’t often, since he was a P3 pilot and usually in a bag. Most didn't pay too much attention to them until a full blown service dress inspection. This was an active reserve base and he had a chest full of ribbons and medals. His top 3 were the Silver Star, DFC and Bronze Star. Had been an Army helo pilot and crossed over to the Navy when the cutbacks were going on. Seems he kept flying his helo in to bring out folks after it was no longer safe to be doing so. Good guy who just did what was necessary at the time.

[Griff Murphey]

Not really the subject, but I was drinking in the BOQ bar at the marina at Pendleton with my friend Major Egan, spring 1976. A Navy Ensign walked in with a chestfull of Army Ribbons and a CBI. Obviously an ex-Army mustang who had gone over to the Navy. Major Egan said, "Doc, you ought to tell that Ensign to take that combat infantry badge off!" technically the Major was correct, but I told him I was not about to suggest that to the man. I think that is one of the best awards an individual can wear and I think it is a shame it cannot be worn by Navy men who are ex-doggies.

[Guamsst]

I think that is one of the best awards an individual can wear and I think it is a shame it cannot be worn by Navy men who are ex-doggies.

You sure about that? Things have gotten so mixed up during the most recent wars that interservice awards are being allowed. He may or may not be authorized. I don't know the current rules for squids but wouldn't be surprised if it is allowed now.

[BlitzKrieg]

Welll, my old SF team sergeant used to say: " worst thing that can happen to a war story is a eye witness".

Stolen valor is a crime. I hope they all get caught and suffer for lying about their fake service.

[coastie]

USCG 1966-1970.
[aka draft dodger]
Not yet have I been shot at, want to keep it that way.
Now I have gone to sea on that "dark and Stormy night" a couple of times.
Chief Bos'n and Chief Warrant at my first duty station were "old school". Did not recognize what their awards were when I saw the only time they had dress uniforms for a ceremony, but there were enough, they never said what they did, but were long enough on service to have been in WW II.
Also the WO had a reserve commission as a Lt. Commander
For you who were "real", many thanks.
Paul

[Dolt]

I joined the Marines in 1971 to go to Vietnam and be a hero like John Wayne. I still remember the second reality hit me. We were sitting in bleachers in Camp Pendleton and some old salty gunny started giving a class on how to set up the proper ambush. He said it was unlikely anyone would escape alive from a well planned ambush. Right then and there I said to myself "Holy Sh..., this is the real deal, not the movies, not the comic books and not Vic Morrow in Combat on tv. From then on, I was very congnicent of what a chicken I really was. I remember we were issued live ammo, Geneva convention cards and had to update our last will and testament while we were on ship off the coast of Vietnam. I was one scared puppy. Closest I ever came to combat was watching Arc Light strikes on North Vietnam by our Buffs. We were on ship about 10 miles off the coast and I could still feel the concussion from those bombs thump my chest everytime they went off. It actually made me feel sorry for the North Vietnamese regulars getting the shi...kick out of them. The feeling didn't last long though. No hero here.

[Barryeye]

I have a good friend who served in the army for a number of years. Only because of the way the dice rolled he never saw active service. For perverse reasoning that I can understand he was in a way a little embarrassed by this. He worked out a good response to those who asked about his military service. He would politely smile and say “I’d rather not talk about it”. Not a lie at all but it gave him kudos he enjoyed. He let the questioner draw their own conclusions from his short response.

[pvtragman]

It is inexplicable to me that any veterans organization would protect posers, but that's what has happened in MO. I have watched this individual become a detachment commandant, Marine of the year, Devil Dog, and ultimately state commandant. The offices mentioned were all the result of single candidate elections and during the entire process, she was telling me and others, that she was never a Marine. In a newspaper interview, she described her "extensive firearms training" before she dropped-out after three weeks of OCS on her own request with no other service (at formal ceremonies, she wore dress blues with sergeant's stripes and a good conduct ribbon). When asked by league members to produce a 214, she was protected by league officials and it was not disclosed, one Midwest District official going so far as to state that anyone with even one day's service, is a Marine! The situation came to a head last spring when a 100% disabled Vietnam combat Marine refused to salute her. The result was that the national level of the MCL suspended the genuine Marine for two years and pronounced her to be a Marine. I can't make any sense of this situation.

[Greg]

I think the most amusing one I ever ran into was a guy who claimed to have been a Marine. I asked him where he had gone to basic training. He said he could not remember. Suspicious, I asked who his Drill Instructors were. He could not remember. Pretty sure he was never in the USMC.

I was a REMF on Active duty from 74 to 86, and a Reservist until 94, and I still remember my Drill Sergeants full name. And those of the other Drill Sergeants working with them. Their names are burned into my brain. Never did anything of interest to anyone but myself.

[pvtragman]

I don't have any fond memories of DI's but one in particular must have been a floater because he would appear at various platoons in my series and when he did, you knew it was going to be a bad day. That was at MCRD in the spring of 1961 and I never forgot the little SOB. Anyway, in 2005 we were invited to a wedding involving members of his ethnic group when we lived in New Mexico and I noticed an old guy with long white hair in a pony tail and earrings who kept looking at me and turning his head when I looked back. Finally, I had to go over and ask if he was Sergeant R. He replied in the affirmative and thanked me for noticing. He had retired as a gunny and by his appearance, he already had more problems than I could have given him.

[minnhawk]

One of my more interesting drill Sergeant stories:

September, 1975 US Army Basic Training at Fort Jackson, S.C. It was the first day and we had piled out of the cattle car (semi trailer) and we doing up downs with our full issue on our backs in duffel bags, trainees getting pulled out to get dressed down, running up a hill and back down, trying not to be the last, pure chaos of meeting the drill sergeant cadre the first time. I was 6'2" and 225 and hanging in there fairly well, when a very big drill sergeant pretty well filled up my field of vision and started screaming my last name at me. Bewildered, I didn't know what to do because he was just screaming my name. Then I realized he had the same last name, well known in the Carolinas but somewhat a unique name. Then I realized he thought I had no right to that name and would have to earn it, and he grabbed my fatigue shirt, pulled out his pen knife, and proceeded to cut the stitches holding it above my pocket, then got enough purchase and ripped it on off. I was directed to remove the name tapes from my other 3 fatigue shirts as well. He waved the name tape in my face screaming that I was a "no-name" until I proved I was good enough to own the name again. It took awhile. However, I shot 77/80 at the range and was high BRM for the training brigade's cycle. That earned "no name" a weekend pass into Columbia, but I had to go in uniform and wasn't too comfortable out in the civilian world, so I spent most of the weekend in the barracks being left alone. Early Monday morning, with a big grin that drill sergeant called me out of the formation and pinned on an embroidered name tape with the family name on it. Later he and I talked to see if we actually were related, but it turns out we weren't. He and his partner left me alone the rest of the cycle. He even gave me a ride in his pickup to the airport when I shipped out to Infantry AIT as Fort Polk, La (no I didn't get to go to Benning)

[LARscout]

I always point out that posers are never disgruntled E-3s with 2-3 deployments and an NJP/Page 11 for each deployment. Thats how I catch em.

[Clark Howard]

I say let the poseurs have their go at being a hero. I discovered that your family, co-workers, employers, and Reserve component's leadership do not wish to have a combat veteran around. After forty some years, the only individual who wants to know what I did and where I served is my grandson. It's no wonder that my Dad and Grandfather never talked about their service. I feel sympathy for the old geezers whose military service stands as the high point of their lives. Regards, Clark

[bobby L]

I've got a college buddy and two grade school buddies whose names are engraved on a Wall in Washington D.C. The thought of dishonoring myself by claiming to be more than I was in the service of our Country, makes me want to puke. I was commissioned a 2nd Lt. in Armor and was lucky enough not to have to go to Vietnam, and I still feel a little guilty about being so lucky. I jokingly tell my kids that the only line I fought on in my military service was the "chow line".

These posers that lead a fantasy life by creating a fantasy military past must be pitied for the losers they themselves must truly believe and feel that they are.

[coltgrabber]

Don't seem to be a lot of recent posts on here. Anybody at Clark AB, Philippine Islands 1961-1963?

[lonegunman762x51]

My step-son deployed on three combat tours with the 82nd to Iraq and Afghanistan and was "stop-lossed" for a year. The misery of Afghanistan for a front line troop makes every deployment I ever had in the USAF, including an Iraq trip in 2007, seem like a vacation. Valor thieves are simply pathetic, to hear lefties call it "free speech" and demean servicemen and women makes me sick.

[Liam]

When Desert Storm 1 rolled around I found myself with the right MOS, but wrong language - Russian. Had been handy for a decade, but now nearly useless. No heroics here. At a high school reunion where some folks knew I speak Russian but don't know why (they assume "spy"), we had a golf outing. When my buddies inquired why my golf was so bad (never having played before!) I answered "While you were partying and learning to play golf, I was busy with a little something called 'The Cold War'" Laughs all-around. I am proud of my stint. No need for embellishment. For those who have stolen valor, however, a special place in hades should await.

[Craig from kazoo]

I've been in a couple of branches, kind of a hobby lol. I like how my old 1stSgt commented on a question I asked him concerning someone's claim of being a Navy SEAL. He explained to me that "there were 600 SEALS, and I've met all 2400 of them'.

Craig

[ebeeby]

Speaking of phony SEALS....

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUxuYuqe-XBFonUGFLETfnA

[Ramair]

Closest I've come to being in the military was having a selective service card issued to me, Nam ended in my junior year in high school. I was however, privaliged to have known and befriended retired and now deceased earlier this year Mstr Gunnery Sgt Terry Rowe. Due to his service, Terry had just about every affliction or cancer one could imagine, and yet always had the greatest disposition and outlook on life. Terry never talked about his military life, and I never asked him about it. I really looked forward to his visits to South Florida to spend time with his son's family, and before he could get out of his truck, I made sure a cold one was in his hand. Here's to you Terry, its an honor to have known you. Rob

[WarPig1976]

Speaking of phony SEALS....

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUxuYuqe-XBFonUGFLETfnA

You beat me to it. Don Shipley is the man,
watch as he guts these scumbags claiming to be A S.E.A.L, so many his work is never done.

[oldtirediron]

My son is pretty new to the military; he is just in a little over a year and spent most of it in training-- He went in the reserves to be able to enter an MOS that usually is not available to regular enlistee's! So he did his basic an Ft. Benning and after a 6 month delay (Class and O'bummer budget SNAFU'S) he is now at Fort Bragg for another month or so! Anyway if you want to really know if a speciality is for real- He went to find his unit and no one knew anything about the unit or if it existed! Only when he showed his assignment orders did some one know where he was supposed to be at !! So one thing I can tell you is that his MOS is classified as secret and he is well aware of what he chose is a great occupation- His ASVAB score was in the top 3% of everyone that took it last year and his drill sargeant's well all referring to him as that "Smart M-F'er! " So his choice's are already being mapped out for OCS and further training !! So he doesn't have to be a poser!

[StockDoc]

Shipley was made fun of, on the latest NCIS LA, including the wig. Quite entertaining, chasing down fake Seals

[ebeeby]

Shipley was made fun of, on the latest NCIS LA, including the wig. Quite entertaining, chasing down fake Seals

Except that is his real hair. :)

[StockDoc]

Oh ya, agree, most wig are made of real hair