WWI mag pouch and WWII leggings, real or fake?

[Hecklerusp45]

The seller claims that this 45 mag pouch is from WWI and the leggings are WWII, but I am not totally sure. On the mag pouch, the ink looks a little to "fresh" to me. What do you guys think? They were selling for $15 (mag pouch) and $15 (leggings).

[Johnny P]

The magazine pocket appears legit from what I can see. Someone must have forgot to cancel the magazine pocket contracts at the end of WWI, as they are commonly found in absolutely brand new condition today. Leggings appear legit, but have little knowledge of those.

[5MadFarmers]

Leggings are legit. On reproduction stuff they rarely get the contract number and date lined up correctly. Those are W-669-qm-11736. W-669-qm-11735 was Langdon Tent & Awning on the same day. The contracts tended to go in bunches. Strangely the Phiily QM Depot (your leggings) and Jeffersonville QM Depot were at some kind of war on leggings as they both contracted for them. Jeffersonville was the main contractor for those. Specification is a "USA" spec (6-288) - replaced by JQD 212. Again, Jeffersonville.

More than you wanted to know on leggings....

Leggings are likely not worth enough to reproduce. Especially not in that size.

[alibi]

Hillsdale Mfg. Co., Hillsdale, Mich. had quite a few contracts starting in 1940, and throughout WWII, for leggings, coats, jackets, and other sewn products. All of the information printed inside the legging is correct: contract W-669 QM-11736 was negotiated April 1941 and completed March 1942. It was a large contract as the negotiated price was $619k. ("Alphabetic Listing of Major War Supply Contracts, Cumulative June 1940 through September 1945" Volume 4, p. 1554) The only feature I'm unsure of is the bright finish hooks and eyelets, I thought would have been subdued.

As to the double magazine pocket everything about it is correct, it is just so clean it looks like it was made yesterday. The images do not show the back side and there are some features of the snap fastener, that engages the male fastener on the pistol belt, that is distinct and would be another item to check.

Most experienced militaria collectors would want to smell test these items as a confirmation that they are not replicas. It is unlikely anyone would "fake" these items as the genuine articles, in this condition, are not rare or all that valuable that it would be profitable to make them.

[m1ashooter]

For the price I'd buy them if you want but I'm on the fence of these pieces being issue. Here are my thoughts both pieces look too clean. The brass on the leggings looks too bright and there are no traces of vergis.

[5MadFarmers]

Hillsdale Mfg. Co., Hillsdale, Mich. had quite a few contracts starting in 1940, and throughout WWII, for leggings, coats, jackets, and other sewn products.

Yes! I've noted Field Jackets, Mackinaws, Pants right off the top of the table.


"Alphabetic Listing of Major War Supply Contracts, Cumulative June 1940 through September 1945" Volume 4, p. 1554)

That was the bit I was missing. They have it at the University of Illinois, Urbana. I'll have the U get it interlibrary loan. More camera work.

Thank you for that!

[5MadFarmers]

For the price I'd buy them if you want but I'm on the fence of these pieces being issue. Here are my thoughts both pieces look too clean. The brass on the leggings looks too bright and there are no traces of vergis.

On the leggings the size works in our favor. That's true of most things which have a size. They made the stuff in various sizes but, as expected, the sizes at the very small and very large end were the "least issued" and thus survive in numbers greater than would be expected. The market for the reproduction stuff are the re-enactors. Clothing items made for 20 year old males is going to be different than 40 year old males. The WW1 and WW2 vets were young and thin - re-enactors are not. Thus the large sizes are in demand but the stuff too small for 20 year old men is way too small for 40 year old men. Size 1 is very small. It wouldn't be profitable to make leggings at that size.

My issue pants have a 28 waist. How many re-enactors can fit into those? If you made pants for re-enactors I'd think "32-44" would be the sizes to make.

In watching the market the larger sizes always sell for much higher as that is what fits the older guys.

[Johnny P]

As far as quality, Mills was probably the premier maker of canvas goods prior to and during WWI. The Mills magazine pockets can be found that are in absolutely like new condition with the paper reminder to take care of your magazines stuck in one side. Looking too new is not a criteria for not being original.

This one is dated August of 1918.

http://i44.tinypic.com/vhqefq.jpg

[Hecklerusp45]

Great info!!! Thanks guys. Is the $15 price right?

[Johnny P]

I would say that is top price on the magazine pocket in light of so many surviving without being issued.

[Doug Douglass]

$35 with the care card included.

[thorin6]

The story, as I understand it and was relayed to me by a old dealer was that boxes of unused WWI .45 magazine pouches were found in a warehouse about 20 years ago. Apparently the 1917 marked pistol lanyards (unissued) and the metal scabbards for the M1917 bolos (also unissued) were found around the same time. The guys with the lanyards sold them in drips and drabs at $60-70 each, and sold boxes of the metal scabbards as well as the individual ones slowly as to not drive down prices. However, it seems that a lot of dealers got ahold of the magazines, and they flooded the market and prices just went into the basement. Several years ago I could buy a mint Mills magazine pouch for $10 that had been sitting on the dealers table for several shows without interest. Even today, there are so many of them that $15 is a reasonable price. That doesn't stop some dealers from asking $45-50 or more, but there is no reason to spend that kind of money. In my opinion, the WWII 1942 dated magazine pouches are much more desirable than the WWI pouches, although both were used early in the war. I have my father's magazine pouch he carried in WWII (he went on active duty in December 1940), and it's a WWI 1918 manufactured pouch.

[Johnny P]

The as new WWI magazine pockets appeared on the market much longer than 20 years ago. I have been collecting the 1911/1911A1 pistol and accessories for over 30 years, and the magazine pockets were common before that time.