USMC Faux Snipers almost competed

[collectorm1ca]

I've almost completed building my two 1903 Faux USMC Sniper rifles.:banana100: One is a 1.4 million SA with a new SA 3-39 barrel and the other is a 3.2 Remington with a new 6-42 barrel. Both of these rifles I built up from a couple of nasty barreled receivers I had. Except for the scope blocks and the Hi-Lux Unertl copy I had all parts on hand, including the barrels, Keystone stocks, the Unertl scope and Unertl rings on the Hi-Lux scope. I did the parkerizing (first ever attempt) on all parts except for the barrels, the bolt on the 1.4 SA, a couple of the bolt parts and the rear sights. The only work I sourced out was the D&T on the scope blocks. This includes the sculpting of the bolt on the Remington to clear the scope. No need to do the SA bolt since the real Unertl is sleeved and it sits slightly higher.

Both rifles shoot very well out to 600 yards. The target below was shot at 200 yards from position with a sling. Two five shot groups; the 1.4 SA shots (w/flyer) are on the left and the 3.2 Remington on the right. Both shot using Hornady Garand Match ammo, before I had a chance to work on some custom loads.

Since the rifles were built using almost entirely parts on hand, acquired when parts were cheap, I was able to build both rifles for just under 2K total :) (not each), including the Hi-Lux scope.

Sorry for the large pics.

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj265/collectorm1ca/1941USMC%20Faux%20Sniper%20Rifles/100_9915.jpg
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj265/collectorm1ca/1941USMC%20Faux%20Sniper%20Rifles/100_9935.jpg
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj265/collectorm1ca/1941USMC%20Faux%20Sniper%20Rifles/100_9945.jpg
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj265/collectorm1ca/1941USMC%20Faux%20Sniper%20Rifles/100_9946.jpg
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj265/collectorm1ca/1941USMC%20Faux%20Sniper%20Rifles/100_9924.jpg
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj265/collectorm1ca/1941USMC%20Faux%20Sniper%20Rifles/100_9927.jpg
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj265/collectorm1ca/1941USMC%20Faux%20Sniper%20Rifles/100_9885.jpg

[McCormickDeering M]

Beautiful rifles. Very beautiful. Where did you get the scope blocks?

[collectorm1ca]

Beautiful rifles. Very beautiful. Where did you get the scope blocks?

Steven Earle; http://steveearleproducts.com/

[powerwagon]

they are beautiful weapons.. great job

[George in NH]

Wow!
Great job! Makes me want to start on a build of my own! I made up a 03AForgery with the Lyman Alaskan. I have had it out twice to sniper shoots 3/600 and it shoots smaller groups than I can hold!
George in NH

[GillaFunk]

Sexy!

[collectorm1ca]

I made up a 03AForgery with the Lyman Alaskan. I have had it out twice to sniper shoots 3/600 and it shoots smaller groups than I can hold!
George in NH

My 03AForgery shoots pretty good also. But the 8X scopes are a little easier to shoot with.

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj265/collectorm1ca/100_99662.jpg

[jgaynor]

You did a nice job on both them. What is the purpose of the sleeve on the Unertl Scope?

Regards,
Jim

[collectorm1ca]

Thank you, Jim. And, thanks to all who have replied.

I'm really not sure why the scope is sleeved. I found it and a few other Unertls in a gun shop in South Dakota while driving home from Camp Perry this past summer. The seller only knew it was, "sleeved and the power ring is sealed." Maybe there is wear and/or damage to the tube? The sleeve is stainless so possibly it's to prevent wear, or just allow it to slide better? It really does slide smoothly. I can see why they would seal the power ring to prevent moisture from entering. I'm a member of a Unertl users group and have been intending to ask.

[jmm03]

Mike, very nice work on your rifles,would you care to tell me who you sent them to for the block mounting? I'm thinking of building myself one and would appreciate someones recommendation on a smith with 03 experience. Regards, Jim McGuinness

[collectorm1ca]

Jim, The gentleman who D&T'ed for the blocks is a retired gunsmith who is a friend of a friend. He's getting up there in years and after he finished mine he told me he never wants to see another set! lol So I don't think he intends to do anymore.

I think chuckindenver (here on this forum) does them.

[jmm03]

Thanks anyway Mike, I live up in Ventura,so I was hopeful of finding someone more local. Regards, jim

[Jim in Salt Lake]

Chuck did mine and the shipping is pretty easy, just do what he tells you. All I had to ship him was the bare barreled action and the scope and blocks. When it came back, my hundred yard zero was just a few clicks off the bottom and the windage on a no wind day was pretty much centered in the ring. I'm happy, I ended up with having the maximum useful elevation and windage adjustments available. I'm not much of a metal worker so I bought one of his A4orgery bolts. Had a SHT bolt that barely cleared the scope at the 100 yard elevation setting. Don't let the shipping hold you up, it's pretty easy.

[collectorm1ca]

Jim in Salt Lake,
I've been waiting for your post on how your rifle shot in the mid-range matches you mentioned in the other thread. So, what's the report/verdict?

[Jim in Salt Lake]

Hi Collector, I've shot two mid range matches now. Still fighting some problems but when everything is tight, the rifle easily holds the x ring if I read the wind right (and that's a challenge here!). When something loosens up, I'll get a shot that goes 2-3 minutes up or down. The first thing I fixed was replacing the Chinese screws that came with the scope blocks. With good American steel, the blocks no longer loosen up. I'm now fighting the front ring loosening up. The Leatherwood blocks are made of soft steel. I tighten the mounts on the blocks with a screwdriver but the blocks will gall after 30-40 shots and the front mount gets loose. Leatherwood is sending me new mount screws that they say are harder steel. I've ordered new scope blocks from http://steveearleproducts.com/scopeblocks.html. I knew about Steve earlier but Leatherwood sent me there when I asked if they had blocks made with harder steel. Steve's blocks are case hardened and I'm hoping have the same hole pattern as the Leatherwood blocks. I gave Steve the hole spacing measurements and he thinks his blocks will fit. If the new Leatherwood mount screws are still soft, I'll go buy American ones. The one thing that keeps me working through these issues is that the optic quality of the scope is fabulous. A buddy of mine has a 12X Unertl and this Leatherwood is its equal. I'm also not having any trouble with the external adjustments. They're repeatable and consistent. I'm confident I can get past this loosening up issue. When things are tight, this rifle is an absolute hammer and a joy to shoot. I'm pushing 60 and having real problems shooting an AR in Service Rifle so this new game is giving me an alternative. My son is turning 21 next spring and I'll probably give him my AR as he won't be able to use the state junior rifle he has now. Sorry I haven't reported back earlier, I was holding off until I got to the bottom of these loosening up issues. I still plan to take the rifle back to Camp Perry and have my two junior shooters use it there.

[Todd1035]

Awsome job! Your rifles look great! Nice shooting as well.

[jgaynor]

FWIW Chuckindenver recently announced he was going into production of a jig which facilitated the location and drilling of the holes for the scope blocks.

Regards,
Jim

[chuckindenver]

i do have a fixture to drill and tap the front base,,,i have one spare left,,,no they arent cheap..not worth it for a one time job, but if you have a few buddies and maybe a tool share would work...

[Jim in Salt Lake]

Hi Collector, I've shot two mid range matches now. Still fighting some problems but when everything is tight, the rifle easily holds the x ring if I read the wind right (and that's a challenge here!). When something loosens up, I'll get a shot that goes 2-3 minutes up or down. The first thing I fixed was replacing the Chinese screws that came with the scope blocks. With good American steel, the blocks no longer loosen up. I'm now fighting the front ring loosening up. The Leatherwood blocks are made of soft steel. I tighten the mounts on the blocks with a screwdriver but the blocks will gall after 30-40 shots and the front mount gets loose. Leatherwood is sending me new mount screws that they say are harder steel. I've ordered new scope blocks from http://steveearleproducts.com/scopeblocks.html. I knew about Steve earlier but Leatherwood sent me there when I asked if they had blocks made with harder steel. Steve's blocks are case hardened and I'm hoping have the same hole pattern as the Leatherwood blocks. I gave Steve the hole spacing measurements and he thinks his blocks will fit. If the new Leatherwood mount screws are still soft, I'll go buy American ones. The one thing that keeps me working through these issues is that the optic quality of the scope is fabulous. A buddy of mine has a 12X Unertl and this Leatherwood is its equal. I'm also not having any trouble with the external adjustments. They're repeatable and consistent. I'm confident I can get past this loosening up issue. When things are tight, this rifle is an absolute hammer and a joy to shoot. I'm pushing 60 and having real problems shooting an AR in Service Rifle so this new game is giving me an alternative. My son is turning 21 next spring and I'll probably give him my AR as he won't be able to use the state junior rifle he has now. Sorry I haven't reported back earlier, I was holding off until I got to the bottom of these loosening up issues. I still plan to take the rifle back to Camp Perry and have my two junior shooters use it there.

Got the new scope blocks from Steve Earle, unfortunately the holes on the rear block don't line up. I did get new thumb screws from Leatherwood and I'm going to give them a try with the old blocks. I'll keep Steve's blocks to use on the next rifle, they've got a real pretty case harden color, gorgeous!

[Former0302]

I think Steve Earl will create custom scope blocks for you, you just need to tell him the hole spacing you need. I'd give him a call if you want to permanently fix the problem blocks.

[Jim in Salt Lake]

I've learned a bit since last June. I got all the loosening problems solved and the Leatherwood blocks stay tight, now. My juniors shot at Camp Perry, scored 146th place out of 241. Evan, my son, shot a 176-1 and Ian shot a 168-3, to total 344-4. They both had a blast! They both also shot in the Hearst Doubles match and were the second highest score for a junior team. Ian went on to win the junior Sharpshooter class during NRA week. Sorry, had to brag, I'm so impressed with both of them. They were a ton of fun to travel with. We couldn't get a hut so we were crammed into one motel room with nine rifles and 3000 rounds of ammunition. Ooooh, sounds like an arsenal to me, arsenal of fun!

[Former0302]

That's a great memory! Great looking rifles too by the way. Turned out great. How'd you sculpt the front handguards?

[Jim in Salt Lake]

Hi Former0302, those rifles on the first page aren't mine....although I'd claim them in a heartbeat, they are beautiful. I did my hand guard with a band saw. Others have used other methods, its not really that hard. I cut the hole for the front block first, though, starting with a couple of drilled holes I squared up with a chisel. Then the band saw...

[Griff Murphey]

Beautiful guns, and fine shooting.

[DMark]

.... I got all the loosening problems solved and the Leatherwood blocks stay tight.....
Hey Jim,

I'm about to begin my build right after the holidays. I've read all of your post in this thread and it sounds like you have figured out all of the weak points in the hardware.

Could you give a complete run down of everything you replaced and the type (size/maker) of each part?

Thanks,
Mark

[Jim in Salt Lake]

Basically, it's replacing all of the block and ring screws with US made ones. That includes the little allen set screws that lock the mount screws. You'll have to disassemble the scope to get the rings off to get to those. I also chased the threads on every hole with the appropriate sized die I'm sorry, I don't have the screw sizes anymore, that scrap of paper got away from me. The block screws are 6X48 screws that you won't find in a hardware store, get them from Brownell's. Every other screw I got in a good industrial hardware store, not a big box. I took all the screws in, they sized them and sold me replacements. Another option is to buy the scope from Creedmoor Sports. You pay an additional $75 dollars and they do all that stuff for you. The main thing that loosened up on me was the front block. Some folks silver solder them on, I used something called Loctite Black Max and basically glued it on. I still used the screws with red loctite. It hasn't moved in several hundred rounds, now.

[DMark]

Jim,

Thanks.

So, to sum it all up - - - Anything that can fill a threaded hole needs to be replaced. :icon_lol:

[Jim in Salt Lake]

Pretty much, DMARK, but you also have to clean the threads. An example, on both of the scope rings, there is a little allen set screw that screws down onto the mount screw and locks it. On both of my mounts, the hole that screw goes through didn't have the threads cut completely through the mount. There was a very small amount of metal remaining, it could even have been leftover flashing from when they originally cut the threads. This little amount of metal kept the set screw from doing it's job. Once I cleaned the threads with a tap, I was able to get the mount screws locked in place. Also used blue loctite here, too. I think a lot of the problem with the front block loosening up is the metal (block, screws, and barrel) expanding at different rates as things get hot. I'm using the Leatherwood blocks, I don't know if others who have used American made blocks, like Steve Earle's, have the same issue. Reading through my Peter Senich book, I don't see any reports of the USMC having these issues back in the day. The last time mine loosened up was at a Mid-Range Prone match, 60 shots plus sighters. This match is shot in three strings of 20 shots in 20 minutes at 300, 500, and 600 yards. It loosened up in the final string at 600. I was shooting fast that day, no wind, because I was on and feeling good. My shots were going 10, 10, X, 10, and then......5! I reached to the front mount and it wiggled, dang it! I still had time so I got out of position. Took the sling off, took the scope off. Dove into my stool for a screwdriver, tightened down the block screws, put the scope back on, got back in position and finished the string within time. That 5 ticked me off, to say the least. There was a thread over on the Smallbore board that talked about gluing scope blocks on a .22 trainer with Loctite Black Max so I though I would give that a try. Got some, hard to find locally, and glued the block on. I didn't use this stuff on the screws, they got red Loctite. I shot two mid range matches after that and all has stayed good.

[goo]

my fake usmc snipers,
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8214/8302707484_fc01fffd69_b.jpg