M1922 M1 Springfield .22 cal

[Jon Field]

Here is a M1922 M1, that has an M2 bolt and magazine, but was never stamped as to being upgraded. It has a 9-42 barrel, no stock markings and appears to be in pretty good shape. Brophy's book speaks of about 200 rifles that were modified with an M2 bolt and magazine and never stamped? Any help or thoughts would be interesting to hear. http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l82/fangfighter_2006/016_zpse1e18926.jpghttp://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l82/fangfighter_2006/014_zpsc2797305.jpghttp://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l82/fangfighter_2006/012_zpsa56fc915.jpghttp://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l82/fangfighter_2006/010_zps22acbda0.jpghttp://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l82/fangfighter_2006/009_zps8a9e4244.jpghttp://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l82/fangfighter_2006/007_zpsd9a2acc9.jpghttp://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l82/fangfighter_2006/004_zpsad7b2802.jpghttp://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l82/fangfighter_2006/002_zps2a30e0ad.jpghttp://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l82/fangfighter_2006/013_zps810874bf.jpg

[Herschel]

Your rifle serial number falls in the midst of many DCM Club Issue 1922M1 rifles. The scope blocks holes in the receiver are further evidence it was a DCM Club Issue rifle as they came from SA with holes for scope blocks. Your rifle would have been made in 1928 or 1929, according to production figures from Brophy. From my observation I believe that when the DCM Club Issue rifles were rebarreled the new barrel was drilled and tapped for scope blocks. Is that true of yours? If your rifle's bolt was installed by a govt arsenal it will have the serial number of the rifle etched on the bottom of the bolt.

I have no explanation for the lack of the additional "I" after the model number nor for the lack of a "B" added as a suffix to the serial number. From time to time rifles show up that lack the additional markings. In fact, I saw one at the Dallas Arms Collector Show earlier this month. Due to the usual modifications I would call your rifle a 1922MII even though it is not so marked.

Your rifle's barrel, stock, magazine and bolt are replacements and I feel sure it was modified at Springfield Armory or at one of the arsenals.

Your rifle is in much better condition than most that I see.

[Jon Field]

The barrel is marked 4-42 and is not drilled and tapped. Also, the bolt is not engraved with the serial number. Thanks for the input, and condition grade. If you get a chance, read the paragraph in Brophy,s book on page 290, last paragraph, ending with "with target . . . $48.39."

It would be hard to say this rifle is one of those 200 guns, but it does have the target sights and not stamped for the modification. Just an added drool factor I guess.

Thanks, for looking.

[Herschel]

I just read the paragraph you referred to in Brophy. The rifle in question is not one of the "200" mentioned in Brophy. The rifles he is speaking of were the subject of an article by the late W.P. Eyberg in the Jan/Feb 1985 issue of Man At Arms. Eyberg lists 80 or so serial numbers of these transition rifles that he had observed. The serial numbers range from 19356 to 20834. These transition rifles had the early M2 bolt. The early M2 bolt is easily recognized as the locking lug looks exactly like the safety lug on a 1903 bolt. The bolt on the subject rifle is the late type M2 bolt.

[Kragrifle]

Brophy is referring to a 1922M1 upgraded with the M2 bolt. There are two, and perhaps three different rifles which can have this feature. First, the earliest conversions were likely done in 1933 or 1934. These rifles I have and have seen others are merely 1922M1 that were not sold until the M2 version was out. As improvements were made in design Springfield would upgrade the rifle before it left the armory. You will find this with the 1922 where there are some legitimate 1922's that left Springfield with 1922M1 bolts and magazines. With the 1922M1 the changes included the improved M2 bolt and magazine. The receivers were not restamped on the earliest rifles. Again, I have seen this on both the service version and the NRA model. Brophy hints at a special rifle and Butch Eyberg gets off track describing this rifle in an otherwise excellent article in Man at Arms, jan/feb 1985. In this article Eyberg lists a number of rifles he had seen or heard of that fit this new model he dubbed the 1922M1/M2. However, in my opinion, these are merely rifles that did not leave Springfield till the new M2 bolts were available and were thus "upgraded" before they left the armory. These rifles will have matching numbered bolts.
The second possibility is a very uncommon, "rare" if you would version of the 1922M1 which was produced much later with the two examples I have seen having barrel dates of 1935 and 1937. These are rifles with NRA style stocks, blued metal finish fitted with numbered bolts. In one of the examples both the M1 and M2 bolts were with the rifle. It is important to note these are not merely overhauls, but blued rifles produced long after Springfield had switched to the black parkerized finish of the M2's. Also, the late barrel dates separate this version from the one Eyberg describes which were all barrel dated 1931 or earlier.
The third, and more likely explanation for your rifle is an assembly of parts on hand by someone wanting to produce a nice 22 cal rifle. The 1942 barrel could easily be screwed into the 1922M1 receiver, the M2 bolt and magazine attached and presto! you have your rifle. I have a 1922 M1 rifle that has a receiver that has not been remarked. The barrel is 1937 as I recall and is drilled and tapped in the forward position. The stock has been slimmed down at the butt and a remarkable heavy aluminum buttplate fabricated. The rear sight is a later version of the 48 C Lyman and there is an interesting rear swivel that is well made and not standard Springfield. I bought the rifle years ago from the daughter of the owner who worked at Springfield as an ammunition tester. Maybe your rifle has a similar story.

[Kragrifle]

Herschel makes an excellent point. The 1922M1's that were upgraded before leaving Springfield should have the earlier M2 bolt without the headspacing adjustment feature. The rifles Butch Eyberg described fall into this group and should have the early bolt. The 1922M1/M2 rifles were produced later and will have the later M2 bolt with headspace adjustment capability. Both of mine do.

[Herschel]

Mike, I have 1922M1 #20434 that is one of a shipment of three 1922M1 Models that the shipping document indicates had the M2 bolt. The document is dated April 23, 1934 and the rifles, plus nine 1903 NRA Sporters are identified by serial number and were shipped to Griffin and Howe. The barrel date on mine is 1-31. This indicates to me that the rifle was assembled before the M2 rifles went into production but were still in inventory so were shipped with the M2 bolt and magazine as you say above.

[Kragrifle]

Herschel,
I would love to see that rifle. Maybe the next Little Rock or Hot Springs show I can get down there. The topic of the M1/M2 has been one of my favorites, especially since I was fortunate enough to find two of the later rifles. One I bought twenty years ago. The other one I bought from Fred. If we can meet sometime I will bring my two rifles and we can compare notes.

[Herschel]

Mike, I will be at the Hot Springs show this coming Saturday. Let me know if you are coming and I will bring a couple of the 1922M1/M2 Transition rifles.

[Johnny P]

If the bolt was changed at Springfield, wouldn't the stock have a Circle/P proof, and probably numbered?

[Kragrifle]

Circle P stocks tend to be WWII rebuilds. Often there will be a boxed cartouche on the left side of the buttstock, usually SA over other inspector's initials. These will appear on rebuilds only. Bolts should be numbered to the rifle, but any number of places could change the bolt. Whether anyone but Springfield numbered them is unknown to me. I never have understood the P proof marks on these stocks since that suggests proof firing which was not done on 22 cal rifles. Remember that original Hoffer-Thompsons will not have the P behind the triggerguard. I have seen Krag gallery practice rifles that have the three letter script cartouche generally attributed to Springfield that do have the circle P behind the triggerguard. Theory is that some of these stocks were recycled 30 cal units.

Herschel, I will try to make the show and bring the two M1/M2's I mentioned. I will email you later in the week.

[Jon Field]

Great info, thanks for the help.

Jon Field

[Raulwaycross]

Just traded for m1922 m1 Springfield,barrel date is 8-27,ser. No. 1473_ ,bolt number is the same,rifle has no holes drilled for scope mounts , any Idea what year it was made? Raul new member.

[Cosine26]

*Let me add some information that could maybe explain this rifle. After WWII there appeared on the surplus market many 22 Springfield parts to include, stocks, barrels, bolts, etc. As indicted in the paragraph below, in 1957, the DCM offered M1 and M2 22’s in ‘serviceable’ and ‘unserviceable’ condition with no choice – you took what you could get. It is possible that a person who received an ‘unserviceable’ M1 ordered and installed “new” parts.
Just a thought.
*Just a little interesting history. By 1957 there had been a long “dry” spell during which “Springfield” rifles were not available from the DCM. In the January issue of the AMERICAN RIFLEMAN there was a two page spread on the availability of the M1903A3’s at $30 + $2.85 Packing and handling for “serviceable”, and $15 + $2.85 for “unserviceable. I think that many people jumped on this opportunity and failed to notice a small notice back under the DCM notes, that a small quantity of M1 & M2 22 caliber rifles was available for the $30 and $15 prices plus the $2. 85 P&H. Either M1 or M2 rifles would be shipped with no choice. As soon as I saw this (within hours of receiving my AR) , I airmailed my request and as I understand it, I was one of two people in the state of Kansas who was lucky enough to get a “serviceable” M1922M1I”. At the time I was just out of the USAF, starting a new job and a new family so funds were short, but I recognized this as an opportunity that I could not afford to miss.
The rifle was in excellent condition, but had been rebuilt was parkerized and carried a 1942 SA barrel. It was an M2 and was marked “M1922M1I “with the “B” serial number. The second “one” was not a one but was the capital letter “I”. I do not know whether this was standard or if the builder just happened to have an “I” instead of “1”. Perhaps Herschel will know. It came with one magazine and no sling.

[Herschel]

Raulwaycross, I would estimate your rifle was made in about 1928. I am assuming the underline at the end of the serial number you provided indicates there is another digit there. I own 1922M1 #8674 that has a 9-26 bbl and #19376 that has a 9-29 bbl.

Cosine26, That is very interesting information about the sale of the Springfield .22's as surplus in 1957.

[Cosine26]

I know that this is an old thread, but as I look at the D&T holes in the receiver, they appear to be out of line. The forward hole seems to be a bit further right than does the rer hole. I wonder if these holes were D&T at SA or aftermarket. Would the armory use a fixture that would keep them in alignment?
Just curious

[Kragrifle]

Cosine26,
Looks like one of the plug screws is flat, the other rounded so this may be why it looks that way. Mount a scope block and sight down it, you may find the holes are OK. I have followed this thread since these rifles are one of my main interests. 40 K or so were made of the 22 cal Springfields and 60 K were screwed with so that it is rare to find one that is original or even correct. Likely this is a 1922 M1 NRA receiver with a later barrel, put together by who knows. If you like it, shoot it and if you do not, sell it and buy another. Trying to find all the parts to make it correct is very difficult and expensive today.

[RCK]

Amen to what Kragrifle said. I started with a mint Model 1922M1 receiver and finally completed a correct, complete rifle. It took over one year and that was 32 years ago!

[Kurt]

*Let me add some information that could maybe explain this rifle. After WWII there appeared on the surplus market many 22 Springfield parts to include, stocks, barrels, bolts, etc. As indicted in the paragraph below, in 1957, the DCM offered M1 and M2 22’s in ‘serviceable’ and ‘unserviceable’ condition with no choice – you took what you could get. It is possible that a person who received an ‘unserviceable’ M1 ordered and installed “new” parts.
Just a thought.
*Just a little interesting history. By 1957 there had been a long “dry” spell during which “Springfield” rifles were not available from the DCM. In the January issue of the AMERICAN RIFLEMAN there was a two page spread on the availability of the M1903A3’s at $30 + $2.85 Packing and handling for “serviceable”, and $15 + $2.85 for “unserviceable. I think that many people jumped on this opportunity and failed to notice a small notice back under the DCM notes, that a small quantity of M1 & M2 22 caliber rifles was available for the $30 and $15 prices plus the $2. 85 P&H. Either M1 or M2 rifles would be shipped with no choice. As soon as I saw this (within hours of receiving my AR) , I airmailed my request and as I understand it, I was one of two people in the state of Kansas who was lucky enough to get a “serviceable” M1922M1I”. At the time I was just out of the USAF, starting a new job and a new family so funds were short, but I recognized this as an opportunity that I could not afford to miss.
The rifle was in excellent condition, but had been rebuilt was parkerized and carried a 1942 SA barrel. It was an M2 and was marked “M1922M1I “with the “B” serial number. The second “one” was not a one but was the capital letter “I”. I do not know whether this was standard or if the builder just happened to have an “I” instead of “1”. Perhaps Herschel will know. It came with one magazine and no sling.

Would you by chance still have the DCM papers that came with the rifle? If so, what was it listed as?, Rifle US Cal 22 M2 ?
I ask as I've seen and am looking at a couple with the same mo as yours, 1957 DCM sales rifles. One has papers with it, one doesn't. Neither are drilled and tapped, both look parkerized, and have the 1942 barrels.
I know this thread is a little old but thought I'd ask.

Thanks

Kurt

[pelago]

i am fortunate to own two of them, one of them was modified (seems like 100 years, but probably not) to a prone gun with a heavy heavy barrel, and the other one is pure stock and both are a pure delight to shoot, accurate as can be, and like a said a real joy to plink with, often debated squirrel hunting with the stock one i have it set dead on at 50 yards point of aim point of impact and, well can not say any more but have fun with your fine rifle

[Kurt]

Pelago, I don't own either yet but am looking. We have a Winchester 62 my mother got on her 16th birthday and it's a fun one to shoot and the fit and feel of these old guns beats what's out there today, and they have "history". I'm not hung up on the collector aspect so much as want to avoid the pitfalls. Getting .22 ammo here in the North country is like finding gold nuggets on the street these days, good thing I have a stash of that!

Kurt

[pelago]

GET IT, AND SHOOT IT
once you have done that you will never go back, these are so much fun to shoot and they also make you shoot better
and you can get an adjustable rear iris for the rifle and i added the USMC front sight blade (big old fat front sight) and it is an ass kicker at 50-100 yards prone and offhand
i just bought four bricks of ely plus

[Kurt]

Bought the one with the dcm papers. It's sitting at my ffl's till I get back home next weekend. Looking forward to picking it up have no doubt it will live up to your experience. I'll checking in when I get it.

Kurt

[2barearms]

I have one of the 1922M1I rifles with the NRA shotgun buttplate stock. The Barrel date is 1932 it's drilled and tapped for O and E
blocks which I still have. It came with a JW Fecker 10x scope which is on a Winchester 52D. The Bolt is not electropenciled but does
have a drawing number on it. The sn is very close to the OP's rifle.

[Herschel]

Some of the 1922M1 Rifles were made up for loan to DCM affiliated gun clubs. These will have the 1922 stock, which is also known as the NRA stock, and will be drilled and tapped on the receiver ring and barrel for scope blocks. A receiver in the 15000 serial number range would have been made in the late 1920's. From my observation I believe that the 1922M1 Club Issue rifles that were rebarreled were drilled and tapped on the new barrel for the forward scope block.

[Kurt]

I got back into town and picked up the 1922 from my ffl. It appears to be all I expected and maybe a bit more.

I looked it over and it frankly I don't think it's been shot much if ever since sold by the DCM in 1957. The bolt was a little stiff from dried grease, the mags as well. The bore is like new, bright and shiny. I took it with me to the range yesterday and other than the stiff bolt and mags, it shot very nicely. I did have a few ftf's. When I got it home, I took the bolt apart (with excellent info found here) and discovered a lot of old black grease packed in the spring and firing pin! After cleaning and lubing that, it functioned with authority. I also oiled the mags and they worked smoothly. One mag seems to be better than the other, one is a little tight going in and out, both marked M2.

These are certainly fun to shoot and my stash of .22 doesn't look as big as it did :icon_scratch:

Here's a few pictures, any comments or info is always much appreciated!

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x35/Supercub99/Springfiled%20M1922/IMG_2934_zps5c47bac5.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x35/Supercub99/Springfiled%20M1922/IMG_2936_zps844306bd.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x35/Supercub99/Springfiled%20M1922/IMG_2935_zps955e9108.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x35/Supercub99/Springfiled%20M1922/IMG_2937_zps44f1ae06.jpg

Kurt

[pelago]

those little 22 target options, swinging, revolving, games are all kinds of fun with this rifle and you can get a merit rear sight adjustable aperture pretty cheap
i also got a USMC front sight blade and put it on there and scores came way up, only one thing wrong and that is it weighs too much to allow to shoot at the cmp rimfire games, and it is a unfair squirrel gun

[Kurt]

Pelago, I'm going to look into the Merit sight and I think I have a Lyman 17 Globe sight around here someplace. Fun to play around with! Any particular .22 ammo that stands out. I ran three different brands through it the other day and all seemed about the same. I have a couple bricks of 30 year old Remington Kleanbore that shoots well and is like new after all these years. Always kept it dry and in the house.

Kurt