shotgun ammo questions

[goo]

i have a norinco model 97 trench gun but i don't really know squat about shotguns.
i got it on a whim.
it seems to be made well enough.
i took it to the range once a few years ago.
don't remember what kind of shells i shot. (wasn't slugs).

my question is, what kind of ammo would the military or law enfocement use?

what are slugs used for (i'm guessing deer), anything else?

i'm also guessing you don't use a shotgun much outside 50 yards. zat right?

also, what's best for home defense?

thx, gents.

goo

[4F4Nam]

goo;
The all time standard 12ga load for military & law enforcement is 00 buck in a 2 3/4 inch shell, 9 pellet load. Now days there are any of a multitude of loads in 2 3/4" & 3", not to mention 3 1/2" shells. 000 has become popular of late. Less pellets, but more energy.
My favorite for defense would be 4buck. Smaller pellets, but a whole bunch more of them. Just my 2cents.
You are correct that slugs are used for deer in states that do not allow the use of rifles. Slugs would also be good for defense but they do have quite a bit of penetration.
Yes, buckshot is good to about 50 yds, and slugs are effective beyond 100yds.
All being considered, the 12ga is a pretty darned good choice for a home defense weapon.
Hope this helps.

Ed

[gwp]

This page is a good start in selecting defensive shotgun shells:

http://www.ar15.com/content/page.html?id=176

[Weasel]

Goo, #8 target or #7 1/2 high brass is good for home defense. Use those because it is less likely to cause collateral damage if you miss but if hit at close range it will shred the target up real nice at close range. Buck shot can travel a good distance through several house walls even going out side to a neighbors home were small shot is less likely to do so. You can buy a P17 bayonet to put on it, if nothing else it just might scare the he!! out of them. I don't totally agree with ar15 but what do I know.

[goo]

joo say bayo?

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8375/8410351901_eb0cdcf417_b.jpg

looks like the m-97 is smooth bore. when do you use rifled ammo?

[n64atlas]

A rifled slug is mainly for Dear out to 100yrds. It is hot thru smooth bore shotguns. The Sabot shotcun shells are for rifled shotgun barrels. You would use slugs for longer
distances. You will need to find which slug shots best in your shotgun.

[seagoatami]

i have a norinco model 97 trench gun but i don't really know squat about shotguns.
i got it on a whim.
it seems to be made well enough.
i took it to the range once a few years ago.
don't remember what kind of shells i shot. (wasn't slugs).

my question is, what kind of ammo would the military or law enfocement use?

what are slugs used for (i'm guessing deer), anything else?

i'm also guessing you don't use a shotgun much outside 50 yards. zat right?

also, what's best for home defense?

thx, gents.

goo
it can also be used on long pig who come into your house uninvited

[emmagee1917]

All of us in my little group of WW2 Trench Gun shooters ( original Winchesters and Stevens as well as Norincos ) use the Federal LE-132-00 . It is a standard law enforcement tactical load of 9 nine OO pellets at 1145 fps. It is real world effective without beating up either your shoulder or these old guns.
Chris

[kcw]

"Rifled" slugs are meant for use in smoothbore barrels. The purpose of the "rifling" on the outside of such slugs is to promote the swaging down of those soft lead slugs as they pass through choked bird barrels. The rifling provides little, if any , spin to the slug. Rifled slugs (ie. Foster design) are meant to fly more like a dart. Of course you can use a rifled slug in a rifled shotgun barrel. I've seen some rounds that were very accurate in certain rifled barrels but shotgun barrels can be VERY picky when it comes to finding the most accurate slug, you have to do some experimentation with various brands & designs. A drawback to using rifled lead slugs in a rifled barrel is that leading of the bore is common. Then there are "sabot" type slugs, primarily designed for use in rifled shotgun barrels. Such slugs rely upon the rifling imparting spin on them has a means of stabilization in flight. You can safely use them in smoothbores, but they'll commonly "keyhole" at 25 yds. Generally, the best thing to do is to use the appropriate type slug in the appropriately designed barrel.
I'd stick with something like a light load of eight shot for home defense, if only to avoid taking out the neighbor's house. I WELL recall how, when my buddy was unloading his 16ga Model 12 in the attached garage of his parents home, when it went off. The charge of "high brass" six's penetrated the tongue & groove wood exterior sheathing (which was commonly used before plywood became popular) of the house, blew through the "rockwool" insulation in the wall and the interior wall board; then across the living room and through the next wall, into a bedroom, across that room into the sliding wooden panel doors of the walk-in closet and on into the closet wall behind . About a dozen pellets even made it through that wall, into the bedroom behind it! The total distance was about 30'.

[goo]

all this is excellent info and for that i thank you, gents.

goo

oh, yeah...

is there ammo that should only be shot through smooth bores and and ammo that should only be shot through rifled bores?

[dave]

For home defence a 410 is plenty big enough. Be sure its a pump, there nothing like the 'racking' noise to scare sh*t out of anyone!

[goo]

the m-97 is a pump and if you hold the trigger while you pump it will fire as fast as any semi auto (maybe faster)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bx8mhatB4xQ

[da gimp]

try low brass 7 1/2's goo..... quail loads, at typical 7' to 7 yds ranges that most gunfights occur, anyone you shoot in the face or upper chest will NOT lie in court.......We have an old cut down Ithaca 37 , 20ga pump loaded with them, for ranges exceding that, I'd use a CAR-15/M4 in .223 with a 30 rd mag, or a good handgun.

[goo]

what's a good group for slugs out of a trenchgun at 100 yards?

[Parashooter]

1" would be good - but it's not going to happen. 3 feet is much more probable.

[goo]

seems like you wouldn't try to shoot a deer at 100 yds with a trench gun.

i dunno.

i'm not a hunter and i guess a trench gun ain't much good for deer.

i'm thinking its more better for bad guys at 10 yards.

[kcw]

Well, if you can match the slug to the gun, and are shooting off a bench with bags, you could well throw a 5" group, unfortunately it'll likely be three or four feet out from your point of aim. What you're dealing with there is basically a bird gun with a non adjustable front sight. Back in the days before the Ithaca DeerSlayer, et al, you considered yourself lucky if your pheasant gun would keep slugs in a paper plate sized target @ 50 yds., in fact that was the general standard for acceptability. Many guys used Kentucky Windage type sighting, ie hold about 5" low and 6" left of were you wanted to hit @ 50 yds. Even then many bird guns were simply unsuitable.
I might suggest that you start out @ 25yds on a bench. Try a couple of the cheapest slugs available just to see if your 97 will hit anywhere near point of aim @ that distance. If it does then try differant make slugs (get a five pack of each), suitable for smoothbore use,to see which shoots the tightest and still stays near the target center. If your successful @ 25 yds, then move out to 50 yds....and so on. Understand that shotguns are picky when it comes to shooting slugs. A slug that shoots well in one slug gun may not shoot well in the very next gun to come off the assembly line. Matching bullets/ammo to rifles is a piece of cake compared to doing the same thing with slugs in shotguns. I have A LOT of experience with that as I used to ramrod our club's public sighting days just beofre deer season for about 15 years. We could process three or four rifle shooters for every slug gun hunter.

[n64atlas]

1" would be good - but it's not going to happen. 3 feet is much more probable.

Three Feet? In Ohio, we are only allowed to hunt deer with shotguns and handguns. Of all the Shotguns I have sighted in for friends, not one has shot a
3 foot group. All have been less that 4" at 100 yards. Some better, depending on which brand of ammo was used. 100 is a maximum shot to drop a deer with a slug and a smouth bore barrel, but ist's done all the time. If it will only group 3', I dought you could hit anything at that range.

[da gimp]

goo, 12ga 1 oz WW slugs in my old Rem 870 riotgun will cut each others holes at 25 yds, & go about 3" to 4" at 100yds, 3 shot groups....it depends on the shotgun m, the ammo( try several brands) & the shooter.............but for typical home defense Low Brass 7 1/2 shot loads are just dandy... at 21 ft the shot spread is about 1" or so maybe 1 1/2".............

added, I hold tight at 25yds, only 1/2 the bead showing while aiming & I aim 11 inches low at 25 yds with my old riotgun........... your result might vary.........aiming like that on the centerline of chest, below the heart will hit bottom/ mid neck or so........on this old gimp KNOWS.............