trapdoor info

[mr.j]

How many books are out there with info on trapdoor serial #s I know of one "serial numbers of us martial arms" by srs. Are there other titles that have this info and can someone tell me the titles of them? thanks,
j

[ebeeby]

Al Frasca's 2 volume set on the trapdoor has some serial number info spread throughout the set.
You can order his books here:
http://www.trapdoorcollector.com/books.html

[Dick Hosmer]

Poyer's basic book also has some data. There are four volumes in the SRS set.

My second book (due 2014) will have serials of all known 1st model carbines, and all known rarities, such as the M1880 & M1884 experimental rod-bayonets, XC, positive cam, etc.

[amber]

Al Fraca's books are GREAT sources for info on the Trapdoors. Worth every penny. Thanks Al for producing these excellent works.

Joe

[mr.j]

Poyer's basic book also has some data. There are four volumes in the SRS set.

My second book (due 2014) will have serials of all known 1st model carbines, and all known rarities, such as the M1880 & M1884 experimental rod-bayonets, XC, positive cam, etc.

Thanks, I found a book where i live called "United States martial and collectors arms, by military arms research service. Its on the cheap side but don't know how much info it has on trapdoor serial numbers it is kinda old 1977 not sure on when people started collecting data on serial numbers on these weapons that is another question i have, I am not looking for tons of info, I only own one trapdoor in the low 24,000 rang that i'm sure i can get help on that here but a book with any small additional info on wont hurt.
























































United States martial and collectors arms, military arms research service

[Dick Hosmer]

The MARS info was all we had in those days - but it is now hopelessly out of date. "Modern" trapdoor info first became available in 1980, with Frasca & Hill. What, exactly, are you looking for? If you post the number of your rifle (I presume, as opposed to a carbine) I will check my SRS books.

[Kragrifle]

For the money and time spent reading it, Dick I think your book is the best on the market. Al's books are also a must have. Waite and Ernst's book should also be on the list.

[Dan Shapiro]

+1 on Dick's book.

[mr.j]

The MARS info was all we had in those days - but it is now hopelessly out of date. "Modern" trapdoor info first became available in 1980, with Frasca & Hill. What, exactly, are you looking for? If you post the number of your rifle (I presume, as opposed to a carbine) I will check my SRS books.

# 24988 It is a rifle, I am not sure of fourth number as it is a bit banged up. I think it is a 7. I am interested in info on where some of the older model 73s started and where they ended up after there time was done. If you can help me with the serial number i provided it will be well appreciated, thanks.

[Dick Hosmer]

For the money and time spent reading it, Dick I think your book is the best on the market. Al's books are also a must have. Waite and Ernst's book should also be on the list.

Thank you - KR and Dan, only hope #2 is as well received - seems to be taking me forever, but I'm constantly picking up worthwhile tidbits of data, and honing the ms.

[Dick Hosmer]

# 240X3 It is a rifle, I am not sure of fourth number as it is a bit banged up. I think it is a 7. I am interested in info on where some of the older model 73s started and where they ended up after there time was done. If you can help me with the serial number i provided it will be well appreciated, thanks.

Sorry, meant to reply to yours first, and got distracted. SRS only lists two 240xx arms (24046 and 24091) both rifles, and both in the 5th Artillery. Only hits count and they are few and far between since only about 5% of the records have survived. Consecutive numbers could have had very different usage, as manufacture and issuance was not done in strict numerical order. All arms under 50000 were recalled during the 1879/80 period, and many of the parts, including receivers, wound up in the hands of surplus dealers such as Bannerman. Any arm found today with lockplate dated either "1883" or "1884" is such a parts gun, and was not assembled at SA. Of course, not all arms were swept up by the recall, making those completely original arms fairly scarce and desirable today.

[mr.j]

Sorry, meant to reply to yours first, and got distracted. SRS only lists two 240xx arms (24046 and 24091) both rifles, and both in the 5th Artillery. Only hits count and they are few and far between since only about 5% of the records have survived. Consecutive numbers could have had very different usage, as manufacture and issuance was not done in strict numerical order. All arms under 50000 were recalled during the 1879/80 period, and many of the parts, including receivers, wound up in the hands of surplus dealers such as Bannerman. Any arm found today with lock plate dated either "1883" or "1884" is such a parts gun, and was not assembled at SA. Of course, not all arms were swept up by the recall, making those completely original arms fairly scarce and desirable today.

The rifle i have does have the 1873 marking on lock plate but i am not sure if this was a redone plate as it looks to be in too good condition for age, I see buff marks that run even the long way on lock plate, is this normal? it has 100% of finish left.(If it is original finish not sure) I have seen other plates but never seen marks from buffing. Could this be because plate is in clean condition? I would think when SA hardened the plates it would have hid the marks from buffing. Not sure on any of this so any help thanks.

[John Sukey]

Just for fun, I once owned 35 of those. Starting with a 1865 in .58 rimfire. Then I was infected with Enfielditis. Now have only one rod bayonet model.:icon_lol:
First trapdoor cost me $45 so you KNOW how long ago that was!

[Dick Hosmer]

The rifle i have does have the 1873 marking on lock plate but i am not sure if this was a redone plate as it looks to be in too good condition for age, I see buff marks that run even the long way on lock plate, is this normal? it has 100% of finish left.(If it is original finish not sure) I have seen other plates but never seen marks from buffing. Could this be because plate is in clean condition? I would think when SA hardened the plates it would have hid the marks from buffing. Not sure on any of this so any help thanks.

There is a world of difference between 1873 which is normal, and just what yours should have, as opposed to 1883/1884 which are totally bogus.

There should not be any buffing marks on the plate, and "100% finish" is, on the face of it, totally unrealistic - sounds like your rifle has been refinished. Can you post pictures?

[Dick Hosmer]

Just for fun, I once owned 35 of those. Starting with a 1865 in .58 rimfire. Then I was infected with Enfielditis. Now have only one rod bayonet model.:icon_lol:
First trapdoor cost me $45 so you KNOW how long ago that was!

Funny, I had another friend who did exactly the same thing - I could not fathom it. He was the source - in the late 1980s - of my 1875 Lee, 1878 Hotchkiss Rifle, 1880TRB, and 1884 Chaffee-Reece, ranging in condition from 85-95%. I paid him three times what he was asking for them, and still feel bad about it.

Let me ask you this, how have you come out financially by the switchover? Have the Enfields appreciated as much as the TDs?

[Dan Shapiro]

Don't forget what MacArthur said Dick, "Perfect is the enemy of Good Enough!" :icon_salut:

[mr.j]

There is a world of difference between 1873 which is normal, and just what yours should have, as opposed to 1883/1884 which are totally bogus.

There should not be any buffing marks on the plate, and "100% finish" is, on the face of it, totally unrealistic - sounds like your rifle has been refinished. Can you post pictures?

Yes you are right about 100% at first glance it looks that way but there is a few scratches here and there but i will wait until i can add pictures before i go on about appearance,, you can be the judge. Another question i have is about lock mainspring, are they normally numbered i came across a few mainsprings with double digit numbers on top and always a single digit on lower part of spring. Why where some numbered and others aren't? I hope I ant asking to many detailed questions but these little details that i have been noticing over the years has sparked a curiosity,