Need advise on annealing case necks

[Mickey Christian]

I used some Winchester 30-06 brass to make some 7.65x53 Mauser cases.
Took the decapping pin out of my 7.65 sizing die and run the Winny brass through it. Then cut off the neck and trimmed to length. I then set them in a pan of water about half way up the case and tried to anneal. They would not get hot enough so I scooped out some of the water and they still wouldn't get hot enough....See metal glow in low light. So I broke out the MAPP gas and they got the color and I tipped them into the water, which was hot by then.

Question is....because the water was hot was the quench improper as the neck was too soft the hold the bullet after sizing and inserting the bullet. I could pull the bullet out with my fingers.

I then used a Lee factory crimp die to tighten up the neck on the bullet. The loads are light for fire forming. Would the case necks be likely to split upon firing being too soft?

Thanks for the help.
Mickey

[psteinmayer]

The best way to anneal (IMHO) is to heat the case neck around the taper only (the anneal will go up the entire case neck)... Using a butane or other low heat torch, heat the taper area just until the brass starts to change color - and NO more. Then, let them cool on their own. Quenching will not soften the brass. I usually use my Lee trimmer collet and chuck my cases up in my drill so I spin the case as I heat it. This allow me to heat more evenly... rather than focusing more on one side or the other. As soon as the brass starts to change color, I drop the case into a metal bowl to cool. I've annealed hundreds of Krag and 30-06 cases this way... Works like a champ!!!

Hope this helps!

Paul

[dogtag]

More than one way to skin a cat. Same goes for annealing brass.
My method: Put in pan, water up to bottom of neck.
Allow water to go inside of case. Turn out the light.
Heat until cherry red, count to five, then tip over.

[13Echo]

Cherry red is too hot! Even dull red probably exceeds the recommended annealing temp of about 650*F. If you can get some Tempelac liquid or stick at 650* use it to calibrate your technique. The method psteinmayer recommended is close to what I use with the Lee trimmer shell holders and slow speed drill. I also find the correct temperature is reached just about when the case starts to show some blue color at about 6 seconds with a single burner torch.

Jerry Liles

[older than dirt]

Chuck the torch in a vise so the flame is on a 45 degree angle. Take an old 3/8in exstenion & cut the female end off. Put a deep well socket on it that the case will go in, then chuck it in a drill & spin it as you heat it. After it`s heated, tip the drill & case drops out.

[Parashooter]

The water bath and quench are entirely superfluous with rifle-length cases. The same can be said of various rotation schemes (since brass distributes heat very efficiently without assistance). All the methods described here will work as long as we refrain from overheating the brass. (If it's glowing, it's 'way overdone.) Personally, I like to keep things as simple as practicable -

http://i53.tinypic.com/2qly3ro.jpg
Note flame directed at shoulder as Paul suggests above.

Cases that have been overheated can sometimes be salvaged by running them through a conventional sizer/expander die several times. If the grain structure wasn't totallly wrecked, this can work-harden the neck and restore the elasticity needed for adequate neck tension.

[PhillipM]

The water bath and quench are entirely superfluous with rifle-length cases. The same can be said of various rotation schemes (since brass distributes heat very efficiently without assistance). All the methods described here will work as long as we refrain from overheating the brass. (If it's glowing, it's 'way overdone.) Personally, I like to keep things as simple as practicable -

http://i53.tinypic.com/2qly3ro.jpg
Note flame directed at shoulder as Paul suggests above.

Cases that have been overheated can sometimes be salvaged by running them through a conventional sizer/expander die several times. If the grain structure wasn't totallly wrecked, this can work-harden the neck and restore the elasticity needed for adequate neck tension.

Are you holding the case with your fingers?

[Parashooter]

Are you holding the case with your fingers?

Yes. It's a fairly reliable way to avoid overheating - not practical with short cases, of course.

[JimF]

The method I use . . . though not possible for some . . . . is to invert a case up to the shoulder/body area, in molten lead.

Using the bare fingers to hold the head of the case, when too hot to hold longer, drop to a folded towel to cool slowly.

Lead will NOT stick to case (especially if "dirty" . . . . like they come from the rifle chamber after shooting) if you allow case to get hot enough!

No chance of over-heating case in lead pot of about 650-700 degree liquid lead! --Jim

[rayg]

Yes. It's a fairly reliable way to avoid overheating - not practical with short cases, of course.

That's the way I do it with larger rifle cases. Put the torch in the vise as mentioned. Do this in a low light, not bright and when you see the neck just begining to turn red, it's done. The low light and finger held keeps you from over heating. Ray

[Mickey Christian]

Since I did overheat the cases would they just split if fired?
Mickey

[Parashooter]

Since I did overheat the cases would they just split if fired?

No. Case necks usually split when they are too hard, not too soft. Overheating makes them very soft - sometimes so much that they can be easily crushed at the mouth with just fingers. Such soft necks don't have enough "spring" to place sufficient tension on the seated bullet. This causes a variety of feeding and accuracy annoyances but generally isn't hazardous with bolt-action rifles in single-loading mode.

Annealing the base end, of course, can be extremely hazardous when a soft case head isn't fully supported by the breech design.