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I picked up an old Ideal No. 5 Powder Measure. I searched the web for instructions but could not find any. Does any know how you adjust this thing? There are two brass slides that adjust. The bottom one is thick and top one is thin. Below is a pic of the markings on the top slide. Would love to know how to adjust it.
20200
raymeketa
02-18-2013, 11:14
You adjust it by hit and miss. The numbers don't mean a thing with the modern powders. You can use them as a reference to go back to a previous powder charge but you still have to make final adjustments by weighing. You use the bottom (thick) slide for a course setting, and then tune it with top (thin) slide and a scale.
Good luck. Those old throwers will usually produce good accuarcy if you learn what it likes and how to operate it (kinda like a woman).
John Sukey
02-18-2013, 11:16
Easy way. Set the big slide to anything, drop powder charge, weigh it, note the marks, start from there. The small slide is for fine adjustment It's going to be different depending what granulation of BP you use.
In any case you want to fill the cartidge case to the point where the bullet will contact the powder. BP works best when slightly compressed.
I'm planning on using it only for black powder. I have an RCBS dispenser/scale, but I understand it (and others like it) are not safe to dispense BP. I'm looking to measure 37 grains of Swiss 1.5 F powder. I'm reloading for shooting an original Spencer rifle with a centerfire conversion. The loads will go into cut down 50-70 cases. I don't shoot BP very often. When I did, I used Pyrodex RS and don't have any experience with Swiss powder. So should I still load the case to achieve slight compression and not worry about how hot the load is? Thanks.
The graduations on your No.5 Ideal measure is calibrated for black powder.The slide you have pictured is the "D" slide.The 0 thru 15 side of the slide is for grains when that slide alone is used.The 10 thru 50 graduations are for use when both brass slides are locked together and pulled out in combination.They were and are used with black powder.The operation of the slides are about the same as the Lyman No.55 which was the replacement for the No.5 measure.Lyman bought out Ideal in the 1920s.The last No.5s had micrometer adjustments to make fine adjustments easier.Otherwise you set it by the marks and weigh the charge thrown on a scale till you achieve the charge weight you want.Do not leave black powder in these measures when not in use,it'll etch the slides.
raymeketa
02-18-2013, 12:47
JB
You obviously know a lot more about this than I do. My understanding was that the modern black powders (or equivilents) have different grain sizes than the old stuff and so you have to make the adjustments as you go. With a scale, of course. I think the old Ideal loading books had charts that showed the different settings so you could get very close on the first try. I have one from the early 1900s that has a chart, but it's probably for the No. 55.
I still have two of the No. 55s somewhere in my stuff. Maybe I should find them and put an ad somewhere?
Ray
The numbers give you a starting point when using old measures and new powder.Given the OP is wanting to use Swiss 1.5 F which wasn't in existence at the time the No.5 was made will mean a little guesswork to find the setting he needs.The No.5 measure was in production till approximately 1949 and was replaced by the No.55 which is still in production by Lyman.Those old measures have three slides,"D","E",and "F".The "F" slide graduations are on the bottom when it is pulled out and measure in 5 grain increments from 5 to 140.As the old Ideal handbooks say,graduations should be regarded as reference points only.
LOL It's easier to show someone how to set one of these old measures than explain it.
I picked up an old Ideal No. 5 Powder Measure. I searched the web for instructions but could not find any. Does any know how you adjust this thing? There are two brass slides that adjust. The bottom one is thick and top one is thin. Below is a pic of the markings on the top slide. Would love to know how to adjust it.
20200
Go to page 11,the instructions are for the No.55 but operation is the same for the No.5.It's takes a bit to download this-
http://www.castpics.net/subsite/HistMolds/IdealHandbook38.pdf
Thanks - good information. I'm getting really interested in black powder cartridge reloading, so I may have some other questions. My focus is on 56-56 Spencer, 50-70 Govt (Trapdoor) and 45-70 Govt (Trapdoor), plus some 12 gauge and 16 gauge.
jon_norstog
02-19-2013, 07:07
Not to hijack the thread, but ...
CW, did you say something about certain measures being unsafe for BP? I've been using an all-plastic Lee measure. I haven't noticed any problems with static electricity, but you got me thinking. What say, O wise ones?
jn
In my research, I did see that certain powder measures were not safe for black powder due to risk of static electric discharge. Why that is not a problem with smokeless powders, I don't know. In particular, the instructions with my RCBS ChargeMaster 1500 Powder Scale and Dispenser state that it is not "suitable" for black powder. I "assume" it is the plastic parts. That said, if you google "Harrell's Precision black powder measure", which some consider the top of the line, some of them have a plastic container. So it may be the type of plastic. Perhaps some more experienced black powder reloaders will know what the issues are.
This has pretty well been debunked.If there was a danger with static how come GOEX recently switched to plastic powder containers?
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?118603-Measure-for-Black-powder
If it really worries you and you've got an old Lyman/Ideal No.55 laying around you can get brass replacement hoppers,it's a lot bigger and looks old timey.I've got an Ideal No.1 set up with a brass hopper-
http://www.buffaloarms.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=158639&CAT=4497
John Sukey
02-19-2013, 11:35
Lyman makes an all aluminum BP powder measure. They also have an aluminum "drop tube" for it. The reason for the drop tube is to compress the BP so you can duplicate the originasl grain weight
KIK BP is in plastic containers. I dont shoot Swiss so I dont know about that one.
I have an RCBS 1500 Chargemaster scale/dispenser. In the RCBS catalog it states "NOTE: Do NOT use with black powder!" I sent RCBS an email asking them what the issue is. When I get and answer I will post it.
Black powder doesn't react well with electrical shorts.That type of scale is an entirely different matter when it comes to BP over the hand operated types.
Doug Rammel
02-28-2013, 04:12
Jon
For static electricity go here.
http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/sparks/sparks.html
I learned that it is not the static that is the problem (as far as RCBS is concerned), it is that the dust from BP is corrosive to the sensitive electronics.
jon_norstog
03-01-2013, 07:07
Wow! Thanks, CW. I guess I'll stop worrying and just make lots of BP ammo.
jn
I'm using my Ideal #5 to measure to get me close and then using my electronic scale to weight the loads. I use a Lee dipper to trickle the powder into the scale pan to hit the desired weight. I am not using the automatic dispenser.
Are drop tubes still available for these old powder measures? Has anyone tried to fabricate one?
Are drop tubes still available for these old powder measures? Has anyone tried to fabricate one?
Half inch OD brass tubing.You may have to sand paper it a bit to fit it in the downspout of the measure maybe not depending on the tubing.
What length? Any constriction on the inside?
How ever long you want to make it,no restrictions.Originally they came with a 2 inch and a 7 1/4 inch brass drop tube.I think the current Lyman 55 Black Powder measure has a 24 inch drop tube.
I sold my Ideal measure because it took half a day to adjust the damn thing.
Lee measures plus home made versions are the way to go for BP.
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