Smith & Wesson model 14-4

[Former Cav]

All I know is that it is a 38 spcl.
How are they in terms of strength.?
can you shoot 38 + P's in them?
what are they worth? this one is MINT and an 80 year old man inherited it from his father who bought it new. It looks new even.
TIA
Bob

[Johnny P]

A Model 14-4 (commonly called the K-38 Masterpiece) should date to about 1980. It should have sufficient strength to shoot +P ammo, but is more at home shooting targets with mild loads.

[Art]

I would not recommend that you put 1,000 rounds of +P a year but Model 14s are as strong as any other "K" frame .38 Special, and will fine with +P ammunition. With that in mind it would make a great nightstand gun. Especially with the longer barrel I would recommend the +P 158 gr lead semi-wadcuter hollow point. These are fine revolvers, congratulations on your purchase.

[Former Cav]

These are fine revolvers, congratulations on your purchase.

I didn't buy it. I was just trying to find out info for the 80 year old who wanted to know about it. He wants to make up some reloads for it. I told him, no problem. He is a cool WW 2 vet.

[Johnny P]

I would caution your friend about working up hot loads of the +P type for his pistol. At the upper end of higher pressure loads a tiny mistake can make a lot of difference pressure wise, where if he were loading normal .38 Special loads a small overcharge doesn't become dangerous. Best to start at the bottom and work up rather than the other way around.

[Former Cav]

I would caution your friend about working up hot loads of the +P type for his pistol. At the upper end of higher pressure loads a tiny mistake can make a lot of difference pressure wise, where if he were loading normal .38 Special loads a small overcharge doesn't become dangerous. Best to start at the bottom and work up rather than the other way around.

I will stay with just standard 38 special loads! I don't want to hurt him or his firearm.
Heck, I don't even load my 586 up to "standard magnums". More like 38 +P at the hottest.
Bob

[Gatofeo]

Yep, the Model 14-4 will easily take +P factory loads.
Don't know that I'd try to duplicate such loads, away from a ballistics lab that can measure pressures.
That 6" barrel with a lead Hornady or Speer 158 hollow point, pushed to warm .38 Special velocities but well under +P specifications, will do fine.
The FBI and police learned years ago that the soft, swaged 158 gr. hollow point at or near 1,000 fps in +P loads was a good load for stopping humans. This was in 4" barrels. Not so good in 2" barrels. Even better in a 6" with that bit of extra velocity.
Such bullets are pure lead, or nearly so, and tend to expand or flatten when encountering heavy muscle or bone. This transfers a lot of energy, and creates a wide wound channel.

If you reload for him, you're violating federal laws. I know many reloaders make ammo for friends, but legally (for decades) if you reload for others you must have a manufacturer's license.
I don't reload for others, for reasons of liability. Been reloading since 1970, and I know what I'm doing, but mistakes happen. Rather have that mistake happen to me, and my gun, than lose everything I own in a lawsuit and face the prospect of being in violation of federal law.
Totally up to you, of course.

The old 158 gr. lead roundnosed bullet at 800 fps -- the classic police load for decades -- had a lousy reputation for interrupting a bad guy's attention. Many shooters still consider the .38 Special as a weakling because of this load's performance. But today's bullets -- jacketed and lead hollowpoints especially -- have significantly increased its lethality, especially at velocities that are near or at +P equivalent.
A 158 gr. Speer or Hornady lead hollowpoint at 900 fps from a 6" barrel would not be ignored by most bad guys.
No pistol is as certain a manstopper as a shotgun loaded with buckshot, and even shotguns are not infallible.
I know of one case back in the 1960s where a kid on LSD absorbed two shots of 00 buck in the chest and abdomen and still managed to run 25 yards before expiring.
But, as house guns go, you could do far worse than the S&W 14-4 and its 6" barrel.

[da gimp]

quite commonly, if a friend wants ammo reloaded have him bring HIS components over & help him reload it with your gear......... you MAY NOT charge anything for those reloads........... if he pays you, an ammo's mftr's license is required...........plus you must have the required insurance etc.........

[randy langford]

I don't reload for anyone but myself. I told a friend if I charge what it is worth you will be paying as much if not more than factory. That seems to stop everyone in their tracks.

[Johnny P]

The same federal law covers giving donuts you have baked to your neighbor.

[da gimp]

I've got a daam short list of brothers that I'll let use my gear.......... but by the same token, I'll use their reloads & always feel safe...........

[SUB VET II]

Can anyone give a guestimate as to the value of the one described.

[PKelly]

Can anyone give a guestimate as to the value of the one described.

I paid six hundred for this 14-3 a few years ago.
http://www.pbase.com/image/124167651/large.jpg

[da gimp]

ya done good kelly.......... that is a very pretty, & from what I see a near mint pistol. Congrats sir.

[RCS]

I bought this a long time ago for $85 at a gunshow, single action with 8 3/8 inch barrel and four screw. Always very accurate with target loads.

Not until the last few years did I find out it had been sort of faked !

Anyone know why it is "sort of faked ?"

[da gimp]

RCS, dbl action notch removed from hammer or the front sight? the grips are rare.......how does it letter?

[RCS]

gimp, you are close, they (S&W) never made a single action K-38 with the 8 3/8 inch barrel. Someone did the conversion years ago, the grips were custom made around late 50's. Hammer is also early but not as rare as the registered 357 humpback hammers

[jjrothWA]

to clear some J-frames for +P use.

Basic cut-off is: 1992 or later for any S&W.

So no +P for your 14-4.

Look nice, like mine!, which goes to range once a qurater and ploop "Mid-range target" loads into the X!

[Art]

+P ammo started being commercially loaded as early as the mid 1970s at least by Winchester. I carried both the old Winchester 158gr +P Semi Wadcutters in my 2" bbl S&W Model 15 as early as 1976 and later the hollow point version of that round known originally as the "SPD" (St Louis Police Dept. also known as the "F.B.I. load or Chicago load) in "K" frame .38s for many years, especially my Model 15s. The word from the Winnie people was that it was ok in any .38 Special steel frame revolver, though they recommended moderation in small frame steel snubbies. so for about 20 years after the introduction of +P .38 Special loads there were no actual +P rated revolvers that I knew of.

[Devil Dog]

I called S & W a few years ago regarding shooting +P's in my 14-3.
I was told that a few +P's were okay, but not to make a habit of them. I got the impression that the gun was safe for +P's but too many would loosen things up too much.

[noslack327]

This is from my instruction sheet for a model 49 bodyguard, printed Oct 1978. Basically it says to stay away from LE ammo,so called plus-p-plus and plus-plus p. which were made for the U.S. Treasury department. For shooting in K frame 38 special revolvers, do not shoot it in guns made before 1958 which do not have a model number on the yoke cut out on the frame. It also says do not shoot +p+ out of J frame revolvers. Its old information and likely out of date.

[joem]

"If you reload for him, you're violating federal laws. I know many reloaders make ammo for friends, but legally (for decades) if you reload for others you must have a manufacturer's license."

That's very good advice from this poster. If anyone wants reloads, I tell them to bring their supplies and sit at my bench and use my equipment.

[Former Cav]

I DO NOT reload for anybody. Too much liability. I should have said I was teaching him how to load. He brought his own brass etc.
Besides, personally, I find pulling the lever extremely boring (even though I PAY CLOSE attention).
Why would I want to pull the lever for someone else?
I also teach people how to make beer. NO way am I making it for them. Too MUCH work.
I'm old and retired! :D