1903A1 USMC Sniper Bolt Question

[ntex2000]

I'm going to be putting together an 03A1 replica sniper before too long. The 03A1 I'll be using for this project has an N.S. stamped bolt (i.e. N.S. is stamped on bolt handle root and not on lug). Somewhere I read where someone had modified their bolt handle by grinding its outside surface where it turns down because it was hitting the scope. However, I don't recall seeing any bolt handles that were modified like this in any pics of original 03A1 USMC scout sniper rifles, and particularly those in the Peter Senich book. Maybe I just wasn't looking close enough...but I don't recall reading anywhere else that the USMC armorers made any alterations to the N.S. bolt that was used for 1930's 03A1 production.

Could someone tell me if the Marine Corp. armorers did indeed modify their sniper bolts by milling or grinding a clearance notch in the bolt handle? Or, could some one tell me whether or not I should expect for my N.S. bolt to not make contact with the scope tube? BTW, I'll be using one the Hi-Lux Leatherwood "Chi-Nertyl" repro scopes for this project.

Thanks!

[jgaynor]

No one really knows. But see Senich "The USMC Scout Sniper in WW2 and Korea" page 89 for a couple of pics and some discussion.

Regards,
Jim

[Jim in Salt Lake]

ntex, I put a 1903a1 together last year using the Leatherwood scope. I used the blocks they supply and my bolt handle cleared the scope with the elevation all the way down. I replaced my bolt because it was an early single heat treatment and I shoot the rifle a lot. I replaced it with one of Chuckindenver's 03a4 bolts that he makes. Since you have the nickel steel bolt, which doesn't have the SHT issues I had, I wouldn't do anything to it until you have the scope mounted. I've seen pictures of Marine Corps bolts modified and unmodified so I think you're safe either way if you're concerned about historical accuracy. I got my rifle to use in CMP matches so I was mainly concerned about complying with their rules. I needed a non-SHT bolt and Chuck's were available and it works great. If you use Steve Earle's blocks for the 1903, your scope will be mounted even higher than with the Leatherwood blocks if you're concerned about bolt clearance. Leatherwood's lower blocks will give you a better cheek weld.

[louis]

This question is for Jim in Salt Lake or anyone else who could answer this:

Not to get off the subject but I'm putting together a USMC 03A1 and have a Leatherwood scope. I will in all probability send it to Chuckindenver for assembly. Has there been any problems with this scope besides the adjustment knobs? And why not use Unertl mounts? Thanks everyone!!

[chuckindenver]

if you use the right bases...bolt mods arent needed.
i love to build bolts, but the rifles look so much nicer with the original bolts..
iv learned a few things assembling these rifles over the years. Lyman hight bases, high temp solder as well as drill and tap the bases.
use a good scope...
im finishing up number 51 USMC replica right now..

[John Beard]

I'm going to be putting together an 03A1 replica sniper before too long. The 03A1 I'll be using for this project has an N.S. stamped bolt (i.e. N.S. is stamped on bolt handle root and not on lug). Somewhere I read where someone had modified their bolt handle by grinding its outside surface where it turns down because it was hitting the scope. However, I don't recall seeing any bolt handles that were modified like this in any pics of original 03A1 USMC scout sniper rifles, and particularly those in the Peter Senich book. Maybe I just wasn't looking close enough...but I don't recall reading anywhere else that the USMC armorers made any alterations to the N.S. bolt that was used for 1930's 03A1 production.

Could someone tell me if the Marine Corp. armorers did indeed modify their sniper bolts by milling or grinding a clearance notch in the bolt handle? Or, could some one tell me whether or not I should expect for my N.S. bolt to not make contact with the scope tube? BTW, I'll be using one the Hi-Lux Leatherwood "Chi-Nertyl" repro scopes for this project.

Thanks!

M1903A1 USMC sniper bolt handles were not modified in any way. They clear the scope tube.

J.B.

[ntex2000]

Thanks JimG & Jim in SL!

I completely missed seeing that notched bolt on page 89 when I was looking through the book earlier. Also forgot about Steve Earle's O & E bases. Just measured the Leatherwood bases and they're .217" and .440". Earle's O & E bases are .230" and .470", so though those will be an alternative if the Leatherwood bases cause the bolt handle to touch the scope. Regardless though, I want to put the best bases on, so should I assume those are going o be Earle's instead of the ones that came with it?

Primary reason I asked my original question about the bolt notch was because I didn't want to do anything with my N.S. bolt. I only have another two of these N.S. bolts that I'm keeping as spares and really don't want to ruin any of them.

[Cosine26]

On sniper riufles equipped with unertl type scopes, the rifle will recoil under the scope and the bolt handle will clear. Without the spring on the scope, it will not return to battery. When you reload, reload before pulling the scope back to battery. After reloading pull the scope back into battery and you are ready to fire. . As suggested else where, juditius selection of scope blocks will raise the scope enough to clear the handle. Higher blocks will raise the scope enough that bolt handle alteratiion will not be necessary.I would not alter the bolt handle of a good NS boolt.
Hope this helps.

[jgaynor]

Ntex as far as i know the the one picture on page 89 of Senich is the only example of a notched 03 A1 bolt handle. It may have been a modification done by an individual for his personal preference. In any case it does not appear to be widespread.

If you search the forums (this one and CMP) the general consensus seems to be that while the scope and optics on the "Chinertl" replica are pretty good the mounts are junk. The problem is not necessarily the height but the quality of the materials and workmanship.
A similar problem was reported on one of their "Malcolm" replicas being made for black powder rifles in another forum.

The cure seems to have been to hunt down original Unertl mounts for a 3/4" tube and use those instead.

Regards,
Jim

[ntex2000]

Are the Steve Earle O&E unertyl mounting blocks the good quality I need?

[ntex2000]

On sniper riufles equipped with unertl type scopes, the rifle will recoil under the scope and the bolt handle will clear. Without the spring on the scope, it will not return to battery...

I know the spring isn't permissible, but what about using strip of inner tube rubber secured between front clamping ring and rear mount to return the scope to battery as is described as a field mod in the Senich book on pg. 53? Anyone know if this is legal for CMP? Don't know if I'll do this but just might get the urge to give it a try at some point.

[chuckindenver]

Lyman type Steve Earl bases ......not O E..
they work, and the bolt will clear, i install lots of them...
if you plan on sending me the rifle, call Steve and he will also tell you...those bases work best.

[Jim in Salt Lake]

If I was doing mine over, I'd use Steve Earle's blocks, harder steel and real pretty color case hardening. The Earle blocks are higher and I like the cheek weld I get with the lower Leatherwood blocks. My unmodified SHT bolt would clear the scope with the Leatherwood blocks with the elevation cranked all the way down. Make your block decision first as the Leatherwood and Steve Earle blocks have different hole spacing. Figure out what you want and send it to Chuck. He's got the ticket for keeping your front block from loosening. Also, when I got mine back from him and zero'ed it on a calm day, my scope was centered in the rear ring, just perfect. I have no experience with genuine Unertl rings and their adjustments. The Leatherwood rings seem to work fine for me and the adjustments are consistent and adjustable.

[chuckindenver]

the bases that they provide with the Malcom scope are poo poo. screws arent 6-48, and are soft as butter,
they arent drilled to the right specs as well.
i belive the Chinese made them to metric specs rather then ASE.

[chuckindenver]

pic of the Lyman bases in use, bolt clears with no issues.
they cost less then 40.00 shipped. best 40 bucks youll spend on the build.

[Jim in Salt Lake]

the bases that they provide with the Malcom scope are poo poo. screws arent 6-48, and are soft as butter,
they arent drilled to the right specs as well.
i belive the Chinese made them to metric specs rather then ASE.

I would agree. The optics are great, the metal surrounding...not so much. If I had it to do over, I'd use the Earle blocks. The rifle is fun, though, now that everything stays tight.

[jgaynor]

I know the spring isn't permissible, but what about using strip of inner tube rubber secured between front clamping ring and rear mount to return the scope to battery as is described as a field mod in the Senich book on pg. 53? Anyone know if this is legal for CMP? Don't know if I'll do this but just might get the urge to give it a try at some point.

I don't understand how this was supposed to work. I suspect its a fairy tall that unfortunately found its way into print.

Regards,
Jim

[ntex2000]

I don't understand how this was supposed to work. I suspect its a fairy tall that unfortunately found its way into print.

Regards,
Jim

I'll post this as a separate topic to see if anyone has tried it out.