??? on this stock, 1898 carbine version??

[Sgt. Rob]

So if you read my other post, I have an original 1896 carbine that I am going to attempt to restore. In doing so I picked up this sporter Krag at the gun show last weeekend, armed with enough knowledge to be dangerous. I thought this was an original 1896 stock on this sporter, but now realize given the bolt handle cutout, I think its an 1898?? Which, per reading old posts here, will not fit an 1896 action. So, is this stock too far gone with the sanding and sling swivels to have any value?? Would there be a trade possibility for an 1896 stock, or should I go to the trouble to make this one fit?? It appears that 1898 carbines are the rarest, and if this is an 1898 stock that could be salvaged by someone I am open to trades, but would like to know a value so as not to get taken, or take advantage of someone else. Really appreciate any help!

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i290/USMC_ROB/1898%20Krag%20sporter/IMG_3396_zps35e651a5.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i290/USMC_ROB/1898%20Krag%20sporter/IMG_3397_zps547a6a31.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i290/USMC_ROB/1898%20Krag%20sporter/IMG_3399_zps468a93d8.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i290/USMC_ROB/1898%20Krag%20sporter/IMG_3398_zpsfeb19f3f.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i290/USMC_ROB/1898%20Krag%20sporter/IMG_3400_zpsf9aee9de.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i290/USMC_ROB/1898%20Krag%20sporter/IMG_3401_zps3b57391f.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i290/USMC_ROB/1898%20Krag%20sporter/IMG_3404_zpsfb4c35ee.jpg

The only marking left is this small number "27" by the triggerguard. The cartouch and proof P have ben sanded away.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i290/USMC_ROB/1898%20Krag%20sporter/IMG_3402_zpsaceab732.jpg


Just out of curiosity if someone wants to check the SRS the serial number on the action is 481065. If it comes up interesting I will eventually restore it to a rifle. If not it will be the basis for my youngest sons first deer rifle.

Thanks for any help here Gents.

Semper Fi, Rob

[dave]

Those stocks are rather hard to find and expensive. Weren't stocks sanded during rebuild? Swevil holes can be filled. While it certainly has less value then a un-molested stock it worth something, to someone who needs one badly! How much is a tough question I will not attemp to answer!

[madsenshooter]

That stock doesn't appear to have been sanded much, note the crisp edges to the finger grooves. It would be a proper stock for the rare model 98 carbine, so yes it has substantial value to someone. Could be it has no cartouche or proof mark because it was a field replacement stock. The sling holes would be easy to fill, least the cut out isn't for the GI swivel base.

[Sgt. Rob]

Thank you for the information on this post as well Madsenshooter. I had not thought of the possibility of a field replacement. I hope it works out that I can trade it for proper Model 1896 stock and parts or sell it to finance the search for them. I have very little hope of finding an 1898 carbine where I could use it myself. Seems they are very rare. I feel real lucky to have what I do in my 1896 carbine. (see seperate post)

Semper Fi, Rob

[jon_norstog]

Sgt. Rob, that's a nice-looking piece of wood on that "carbine" there. Too bad about the missing and added hardware. OTOH the whole setup looks really good to me - the barreled action looks great, the wood is there too. I agree with Madsen - it takes a lot of sanding to eliminate the cartouche completely and I don't see the signs of that, for instance in your last picture.

From the pictures it looks like a Bannerman front sight on that piece. If so it could indicate it was put together from a cutdown rifle and a field replacement stock, probably years and years ago. About the swivels and the missing "saddle ring." It looks to me as if someone set it up for hunting but didn't use it much, or used it in a dry climate. Or they might have been part of the original hack job.

I expect we'll hear more on this one from Dick and 5MF.

jn

[Dick Hosmer]

FWIW, I do not believe that many, if in fact any at all, "field replacement" stocks were made, or utilized, in the unique 98C configuration. There may have been over-runs which were sold off, but I'm pretty sure that any 1898 Carbine requiring a new stock due to breakage or wear would have been treated to a new 32" 1899-type stock, along with all the rest of them.

[madsenshooter]

The Bannerman sight might be pointing in the right direction, I imagine he bought a large portion of the surplus stocks. I have seen 98 carbines in 99 stocks, or cutoff rifle stocks rather than the proper stock. Someone will be interested in it. Perhaps 5 has some info to contribute about field replacement stocks for the 98C. Had to have had some, I would think, as the 98 carbines were being made a year before the 99C stock was approved in August 1899, but it could be as Dick said, just an over run. Either way, it is what it is, and Sgt Rob has made a very lucky find. Glad he stopped by here before selling it. The stock could bring more than what you paid for the whole shebang and help with the 96C project.

[Mark Daiute]

I'm a little tempted to try and get it (that stock) from the OP for my 1898 carbine in the 1899 replacement stock. That OP's stock sure is pretty, too pretty, really, for my 1898 carbine.

[Sgt. Rob]

I am debating putting it up on ebay, but would rather if possible, trade it for an 1896 carbine stock and possibly other parts depending on condition.

Other then that, would it be considered bad if I modified this one to fit my 1896 action? Or would that be ruining something too valuable? What Krag parts dealers or collectors should I contact?

Thank You Gentlemen

Semper Fi, Rob

[Dick Hosmer]

I have a quite decent 32" stock with 1896 inletting, which also has no cartouche, that I'd be willing to trade in some manner. I also may have some other parts you need. You need a 32" stock for that rear sight anyhow. It would be a sin to gouge out that stock.

SORRY, I withdraw the trade offer - I forgot about the holes that need to be plugged.

[Sgt. Rob]

Since it already has the holes, then would it still be a sin to modify it?

Semper Fi, Rob

[Ned Butts]

YES!!!! The holes are a minor issue on a rarely seen stock that is in otherwise very good shape!

[Sgt. Rob]

If the holes are a minor issue, I would think it a worth while trade for a 32" stock. But apparently to the other fella it would not be. (point of the trade is moot, as I want to keep original appearance anyway) And the carbine stock is not going on this rifle, see my post on the 1896 Carbine I have. I bought this rifle for the stock to use on the 1896 Carbine, and the rear sight to replace the broken one on my 1898 rifle project. The rifle pictured with this stock will end up in something cheap from ebay or GB down the road and used as my youngest boys deer rifle.

Later this weekend, I will post up the stock in the classifieds here and entertain offers, see what happens. Truth is, I think it will be hard for someone to come up with an 1896 Carbine stock in simialar condition to trade.

Semper Fi, Rob

[5MadFarmers]

Truth is, I think it will be hard for someone to come up with an 1896 Carbine stock in simialar condition to trade.

Semper Fi, Rob

No. Simple numbers tell you otherwise. 5,000 1898 carbines were made and that stock is unique to them. Over 20,000 1896 carbine stocks were made. Obviously 1896 carbine stocks are more often encountered.

It would be a very silly thing to do to modify that stock. Burn a couple 100 dollar bills - same difference.

That gun has a rear sight you mention you intend to use but it's missing the hand guard - not an easy item to find.

Sell the stock or hang on to it for the day you bump into an 1898 carbine needing one. The holes are a bummer but that's life.

[Sgt. Rob]

Just so everybody is clear, this is my 1896 carbine....................

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i290/USMC_ROB/30-40%20kRAG/IMG_3383_zps44c7decd.jpg

This is my 1898 rifle.................................

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i290/USMC_ROB/8%20Krag%20Rifle/IMG_3405_zps5265c4c1.jpg

and the stock in question is on this "donor parts" sporter
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i290/USMC_ROB/1898%20Krag%20sporter/IMG_3396_zps35e651a5.jpg

I think some of you are confused about which rifle is being restored with which parts. My goal is to end up with a "correct" 1896 restored carbine and 1898 restored rifle. The donor sporter will remain a sporter.

I hear what you gents are saying about the stock. It concerns me that one (well respected in the field) gentleman offered a trade for what would be a less valuable 1899 stock, then with drew because of the sling swivel holes. Which makes me think the damage is enough to devalue the stock to the point where maybe I should use it. I think a comparable 1896 stock would be worth less because of the numbers made, and I am worried that a fair trade may not be possible. I will see what happens when I offer it up in the classifieds, but do not have my hopes up because Mr. Hosmer would know the values and I feel his withdrawled offer carries weight.

Semper Fi, Rob

[madsenshooter]

I think those little holes would mean very little to someone who has a 98 carbine in a stock that isn't correct. Lots of folks just love correct and original, and if I had a 98C we'd be talking about a swapping for something, maybe another whole rifle. On the other hand, that stock with the bolt channel cut not done right would just be a waste. Someone who does very precise work would be needed to duplicate the cut.

I think there might be something quite noteworthy about the stock too. It's the orange Italian wood. I'll ask the collector types who get out more than I do, how many properly stocked 98C's do you see with Italian walnut stocks? This wood also gives us an idea on an approximate date of manufacture.

[jon_norstog]

Dan Shapiro's current thread on CMP carbines shows a picture of a pile of carbines and rifles. 3 of the carbines have the same type of swivels, altho the front swivels are attached to the band. These on otherwise real carbines. On that same thread terry R said:

"I've been to a gun auction that was selling a midwest collection of 75+ Krags, and I saw 2 krags with the same swivels. I thought they were done later on and bogus, but they seem to keep popping up here and there, and they all look close to the same."

I had a 95/96 carbine with swivels for years, but they were rifle-type, front and rear.

jn

[Dick Hosmer]

Firstly, let me apologize to Sgt. Rob for any disruption to his plans caused by my too-hasty trade offer.

Holes or not, it is still a scarce stock, and should not be mutilated. The screw holes can be plugged, I just don't want to be the one who had to do it. My 1898C has a correct stock, with a cartouche; I should just leave well enough alone.

As to the legitimacy of such swivels, it seems that a trial balloon is being floated, on the basis that more than one set has been seen, that they may possibly, somehow, some way, be some offbeat, sort of semi-official, military standard. I believe such a theory is entirely without merit. I have never been a fan of swivels on carbines (even the so-called Engineer version) in any case, but 5MF has convinced me that I am wrong in this regard. I now accept - but do not own, and would not buy - such a gun.

[madsenshooter]

Swivels may have been a Stokes, Bannerman, or Herters item. I have a nice sporter stock that I think was once a 99C stock cut for the 1896 bolt channel. Judging by the styling done in the late 40s on through the 50s. Same swivels on it, the front one rigged to hold a homemade barrel band.

[madsenshooter]

Here's one to watch Sgt. Rob, will give you an idea what it might be worth to someone: http://www.ebay.com/itm/30-40-krag-1898-saddle-ring-carbine-stock-/230944374596?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35c55b7f44

[Dick Hosmer]

From the text portion of the offering, the seller is clearly not knowledgeable about Krags and I very much doubt he understands what he selling, but it will be interesting to see where it goes.

I would say that the band and hand-guard (typically broken out at the front) are worth around half of the asking price.

Thanks for sharing, Bob.

[Sgt. Rob]

Thank you for the link Madsenshooter, I will be watching that. This is putting me in a bit of a conundrum, cause the stock I have would look really nice. The other thing is I have been searching out 1896 stocks to get an idea of what is out there, and it seems that the new replacement stocks available are all the later style 1899 type. I think I am going to mull it all over for a couple weeks, and concentrate a bit more on restoring the rifle first, then tackle the carbine as bits and pieces can be found.

I do not think the carbine stock is Italian walnut. Color and grain are actually close to the 1896 stock I do have. and is darker then the rifle stock, of which I do think is the Italian Walnut. I think the pics are just lightening up the color. Once I get them apart for cleaning (work is slowing me down) I will post more pics. Just to be sure. I appreciate all the input Gentleman, I am excited to have some projects and wish to restore them carefully and correctly. The past posts I have been reading have been very informative.

As for the sling swivels, I have no misconceptions that they were added by anybody but some hunter. They are similar to but not the same as the rear ones seen in the CMP picture, but they are both like the rear type shown in those pics and at that they do not appear to be an exact match. They appear to be a 1950's or 60's vintage.

Semper Fi, Rob

[Sgt. Rob]

If anybody else watched that auction, it definately has me thinking I should put it up on ebay. I did not realize just how far some may go for genuine 1898 carbine parts. I think if I can get enough to fund restoration with repro parts and have myself a shooter, that is the way I would like to go on this.

Semper Fi, Rob

[madsenshooter]

Sgt Rob, it's not what I thought it was. In the 10th pic I see the scalloped cut for an 1896 receiver, so it's an original 1896 carbine stock, one of two presently on ebay. Oops, got my stock auctions confusticated, here's the two 96C stocks: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-1896-krag-SRC-carbine-short-stock-w-metal-no-reserve-auction-/130872581833?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e789d1ec9

http://www.ebay.com/itm/30-40-krag-carbine-stock-exc-cond-/230948235487?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35c59668df

I had to go back and see what the 98 went for. Said it was probably worth another rifle to someone.

[Sgt. Rob]

I am watching those auctions now as well, thank you for the heads up. I honestly can not make up my mind as weather to sell my 1898 stock or not. So have been holding off doing anything with it. Its in great shape and I would hate to part with it should I need it later. On the other hand if it went for crazy money, I could easily get most of the stuff I need. Decsions......................

Semper Fi, Rob