A couple of questions about my M1917 Eddystone

[DocCasualty]

I bought this rifle quite awhile ago. It sat for years as I was told by an FFL "basement gunsmith" who supposedly gauged it that it had excessive headspace and would be dangerous to fire. Long story short, I bought a field gauge after learning that the bolt needs to be taken down to test it and it passed with flying colors. I still haven't shot it, but that's another story.

As you can see it's an Eddystone receiver and everything I can find with a marking is Eddystone except for the barrel which is a Remington. The only marking I can find on the stock is "1C" which the Ferris book indicates as an Eddystone sub-inspector mark. From the same book I learned that the receiver was manufacture between Sep. and Oct., 1918. Since it has a Remington barrel (11/18) and was parkerized, I presume it was an arsenal rebuild. What I'm wondering is why it doesn't have any rebuild marks on the stock? I saw on another recent thread here that sometimes they were not so stamped on the stock after an arsenal rebuild, so is that a reasonable presumption with this one too? Is it common too see so little in the way of markings on an M1917 stock?

The bore is dark and does appear rough. I've cleaned it a few times but haven't gotten too aggressive in that regard, so maybe it's better than I think, IDK. The most unfortunate thing to my eye is that somebody took a brush or steel wool to some of the barrel and receiver, which you might be able to see in the pics. A fair amount of parkerizing is still present and there is no rust or pitting anywhere. The stock seems in really good shape to me. I don't think it was sanded though don't know that either. The only thing I have done was replace the rear sight as some bubba (probably the same one who took the wire brush to it) cut the battle sight peep into a v-notch. I found a replacement "E" sight for a buck or so at a gun show. Oh, the hand guard had a cosmetic crack but wood glue did a pretty good job with that and it's not very noticeable.

I'm not looking for the actual history of this rifle, just wondering what those of you here think its probable evolution to this point was? I don't think it has any real collector value, so I'm not worried about that. I think I paid ~ $125 - $150 back in the mid-latter 90s and I'm sure for parts alone it's worth more than that.

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[Tuna]

If you have cleaned it already then take it out and put some rounds down range with it. You may be surprised how good the barrel might be. Since it has a Remington barrel then it has been changed as all three of the companies used their own barrels only. The stock appears to have been cleaned and maybe sanded at some point in the past. Yes sometimes they were rebuilt and not stamped depending on when and where it was done. I have one similar to yours and it's very enjoyable to shoot and quite accurate. Value is at least in the $500+ range.

[DocCasualty]

Value is at least in the $500+ range.
Appreciate your comments. Yep, this one is long overdue for a trip to the range. The snow should be melting pretty soon, so that opportunity will arise!

I'm pleasantly surprised at your value estimate. I figured with the scrubbed metal it wouldn't have crept up that much.

[chuckindenver]

clean the bore well, before you take it to the range,.
try using hot soapy water with a worn brush, then clean with bore solvent of your choice...remove from the stock first.
never...shoot a rifle clean...

[IditarodJoe]

Welcome to the forum, Doc, from an expat (soon to be repatriated) Michigander. Any way you cut it, that's a nice looking 1917 and I agree with the $500+ ballpark value. Unless the abrasion on the metal is a lot worse than it looks in the photos, I wouldn't worry too much about it. It's a battle rifle and it is what it is. If it really bothers you, you could send the stripped barreled receiver out to Chuck and he'll refinish it for you. He does a nice job and his prices are reasonable.

As Tuna and Chuck have said, the only way to know how it shoots is to put some rounds through it. (You live in the UP and you don't shoot in the snow . . . really? :eek:) How does the muzzle look? Any dings or gouges? Have you done a "bullet test" to get an idea of the muzzle wear?

From the look of the finger grooves, the stock doesn't appear to have been heavily sanded. I find it interesting that there are no "Eagle Head" inspections stamps (original inspection stamps) on it. That makes me think it isn't the stock it left the Eddystone factory in. Is there a large "E" (or "R" or "W") stamped into the front tip of the stock? It's likely that many of these rifles were repaired in locations other than the arsenals ... could that be a field replacement?

Keep us posted. Good shooting.

[DocCasualty]

Welcome to the forum, Doc, from an expat (soon to be repatriated) Michigander. Any way you cut it, that's a nice looking 1917 and I agree with the $500+ ballpark value. Unless the abrasion on the metal is a lot worse than it looks in the photos, I wouldn't worry too much about it. It's a battle rifle and it is what it is. If it really bothers you, you could send the stripped barreled receiver out to Chuck and he'll refinish it for you. He does a nice job and his prices are reasonable.

I don't know that it bothers me that much, I was only after a reasonable example to begin with. Just thought that it was always best to leave the metal with old guns and blades as is. The metal's not gouged, just the parkerizing scrubbed off in spots. Though now that it has been messed with, maybe refinishing might be something to consider. Guess I need to make sure the barrel shoots well enough to consider it.


How does the muzzle look? Any dings or gouges? Have you done a "bullet test" to get an idea of the muzzle wear?

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I think it still has some life. What do you think?


From the look of the finger grooves, the stock doesn't appear to have been heavily sanded. I find it interesting that there are no "Eagle Head" inspections stamps (original inspection stamps) on it. That makes me think it isn't the stock it left the Eddystone factory in. Is there a large "E" (or "R" or "W") stamped into the front tip of the stock? It's likely that many of these rifles were repaired in locations other than the arsenals ... could that be a field replacement?

That's been my main question. That 1C goes along with Eddystone but there's nothing else. Maybe the other stamps have been sanded off and the 1C is all that survived?


You live in the UP and you don't shoot in the snow . . . really? :eek:

Nah, I live in the Tip of the Mitt. My club range is closed this time of year. If I really wanted to shoot there nobody would care but trudging a couple of hundred yards back and forth to the target through a couple of feet of snow wears thin pretty quickly. Or maybe I'm just getting old and lazy!

You've probably been away for awhile but no self-respecting Yooper would ever say he lived in Northern Michigan. He'd tell you he lived in 'da UP, eh? So as not to be confused wit doz trolls livin' under 'da Bridge, dontcha' know? HOLY WAH!!

[George in NH]

Hi Doc,
Some posters here have had good luck with bore cleaning by securely plugging either the muzzle or the chamber and filling the bore with Hoppe's #9 bore cleaner and letting it sit for 24 hours or so. The pitting should not affect available accuracy but will make cleaning more arduous. Good Luck with the M1917, a terrific rifle and vastly underrated for most of its' existence. George in NH

[kcw]

After WWI there was a limited rebuild program for M1917's but that didn't last very long. Most of the rifles in need of arsenal overhaul were simply put into storage. Considering that there were nearly a million Enfields still in unissued condition at the end of the war (those would be the units that would later shipped to England during the dark days ofWWII) there just didn't seem to be a pressing need to invest in the rebuilding of what was even then viewed as a secondary arm. Of course when the U.S. entered WWII it once again found itself short of arms. Having already shipped off the best of its M1917's to England there was a rush order put on rehabing the used
1917's left over from WWI. The deal was to get them out the door ASAP. To that end some of the normal rebuild procedures were sort of relaxed. For example there was never any attempt made to "zero" in rebarreled units. In fact many units that received replacement barrels (either left over WWI production or newly made ones such as High Standard) had salvaged WWI front sight bases installed on them, completed with the original blade inserts still in them from the day they were 1st "regulated" to their original barrels at the WWI factory arsenal. I guess that the idea was that the field unit armorer would deal with windage and elevation issues arising from using old sights. Several years ago I bought a 1917 that appeared to be fresh from the rebuild process. The bolt was still stiff from the parkerize. I soon found out that the thing shot 10" low and 2' to the left @ 100yds with the battle sight. I found that the Eddystone barrel had a Winchester front sight base base, complete with the tallest Winchester blade that was made. Obviously this gun was never issued during WWII, or if it ever was it was quickly tossed aside as being useless; nobody ever took the time to repair it until I did by obtaining one the shorter inserts and then adjusting it for windage. I can only imagine the frustration that some new recruits must have had on the range if they were issued 1917's that came fresh from the rebuild process, especially if their instructors didn't understand what they were dealing with.

[DocCasualty]

I finally got this rifle out to the range today and was pleased with the results. Battle sight shot about 8" high and 100 yard sight was pretty much on with reasonable groups. I was off a little to the right but that might have been me, even though I had a makeshift rest off the bench. I obviously need to start shooting more, as off-hand I was doing pretty lousy, though that was at the end of the range session.

This bore still looks kind of rough after all its cleaning and even after clean-up today shooting milsurp FMJ ammo, though I guess it isn't much of a practical shooting issue after all. I'm kind of curious if an electronic bore cleaner would do any more but at this point that might be a bit obsessive.

[Dan Wilson]

Nice looking rifle
If your shooting with the battle sight (sight ladder down) then your shooting at an aperture that is zeroed at 450 yards; that may explain the 8" high.
As for the bore, I wouldn't bother with an electric bore cleaner, it would just make the bore rougher.
Lots of these rifles were ceremonial rifles shooting corrosive blanks and never cleaned and that is why the bore is in such bad shape, but like what was said above, it wont hurt the accuracy.
If the bore really really bothers you, you can buy a new barrel from the CMP E store.

[jjrothWA]

A word of caution or an FYI,

With the barrel change and Eddystone receiver, suggest that you look at the front receiver ring, with a magnifying lens to see if a crack has developed.
NOT all Eddystones with different barrels have developed cracks but just something to be aware and check out.

[DocCasualty]

A word of caution or an FYI,

With the barrel change and Eddystone receiver, suggest that you look at the front receiver ring, with a magnifying lens to see if a crack has developed.
NOT all Eddystones with different barrels have developed cracks but just something to be aware and check out.
I appreciate your comments and concern. I've read quite a bit about this over time and my understanding is that the greater concern is with those Eddystones rebarelled during WWII. All comments appreciated.

[chuckindenver]

Eddstone, Winchester, Remington all used the same steel from the same plant. Midvale steel.
the cracks iv seen are more likely from receiver wrench pressure issues, or poor wrench fitting. and not from the barrel being installed.
i have severel pictures of cracked 1917s..more Winchesters then any..
i do agree, no matter what rifle your rebarreling, you should always look for damage...
however...the cracked Eddstone issue. is more Myth then fact.

[JimF]

. . . . . the cracks iv seen are more likely from receiver wrench pressure issues, or poor wrench fitting. and not from the barrel being installed. . . . .

I've read that the receiver cracks occurred when the original barrel was REMOVED . . . . . NOT when a new one was installed.

Ever notice the condition of the ring AFTER barrel removing, but BEFORE installing a new barrel?

Any truth to what I've read in the past? --Jim

[chuckindenver]

agreed,
years ago, i put the challenge out for pics of cracked 1917s...took a while.
but i got some. and after looking at the cracks, and the stories as to when they cracked..
all but one were likely from the wrong wrench, loose wrench, wrench abuse. over tightening or hammer use...or less then correct gunsmith tools.. bench vice, pipe wrench ect.
the other was one i have that cracked likely from fire damage or heavy rust damage, then reblued ect,
i have yet to see one that had a crack forced at the face, from crush pressure.
if you understand how the square apex thread works, and how the 17 and 14 actions were made...id say it would be pretty tough to crack one from screwing in or removing the barrel, crush pressure.
as iv said before....17s are 3.5% nickle steel, and only surface hardened, and bend real easy..though very strong, they are soft.
you can crush a 17 reciever ring pretty easy, without trying hard, ask me how i know.
most of the action wrenches sold today are undersized. and really not big enough to use on a 1917,
most buy a Mauser, Springfield action wrench and use it on the 17.
had they got one for the Jap Type 99, they may have had better results...
anyway.
all the cracks iv seen, but one. have been from wrench issues, rather then crushing force of the barrel being removed or installed..

[fguffey]

Before the Internet the 3 M1917s were rated by smiths, first was the Remington, then the Winchester, after that when it came to quality it was anyone's guess, there was no grade for the Eddystone meaning the quality was not consistent, cracked, I have two, a long ago participant of the old forum has one for show and tell. Another former participant of this forum needed a 1894 Crag barrel, I sent him one, in return he sent me an Eddystone barrel, complete with the story, he described the event about the barrel removal, he described the event and likened it to the first removal and install of the first tubeless truck tire, there was not enough room on top of and around the barrel vise and action wrench for all the help. All they wanted was the receiver.

I attempted to install the barrel on any 1 of 5 receivers, no luck, the barrel, if installed would have created stress on the receiver in the form of a wedge, I corrected the problem.

F. Guffey

[fguffey]

Remington M1917, claimed and declared the ugliest rifle ever, I could not see how someone could build a rifle that ugly without knowing what they were doing, sure enough, before I recovered the parts I took it to the range, I decided there was nothing I could do to improve on the accuracy so I applied the ‘leaver policy’ left-ter the way the way I received-er.

http://www.gunauction.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=7309186

F. Guffey

[chuckindenver]

sometimes moving on is easier on the wallet

[fguffey]

sometimes moving on is easier on the wallet

The rifle is a Remington, the first choice by smiths before the Internet, I pay less for Eddystones, again, the Eddystone was a gamble, needing receivers I purchases 5 DP rifles, I wanted to pay less for the Eddystones, no deal, the price was $50.00 each, Winchester, Remington or Eddystone, bolts were sealing for $40.00.

F. Guffey