length of cases and another ?

[duke133]

I am, like I posted earlier, just getting back into reloading. I am using once fired brass (WW, Rem& PMC 45 acp) but noticed in random measuring that the case length varies somewhat from 22.65 up to 22.73mm. This is below the maximum length but I was curious about the difference and whether it makes a difference as long as it is below the max.

Also, in some posts people mention the bell when talking about crimping,. What exactly is the bell?
And, lastly for now, I have de-primed the casings and used a pocket cleaner to remove the residual junk but how clean does the pocket have to be? Sparkling like new brass or just no rough areas?
Thanks.

[Maury Krupp]

Loading .45ACP blammo is as close to a "no brainer" as there is in reloading.

That's not to say you needn't pay attention; more that there are a whole lot of steps and factors that matter in other reloading that don't matter for .45ACP. It's a pretty low power/low pressure load, most pistols chambered for it aren't very finicky, and the usual accuracy demands are comparatively low.

Any case length below max is fine. It headspaces on the case mouth (or extractor) so all that matters is that the weapon can go fully into battery. I've never trimmed a .45ACP case.

Straight wall pistol cases require a "bell" or "flare" to open the case mouth to allow for bullet seating; then a crimp to take that bell out and straighten the case mouth back to the proper shape.

I've never cleaned a .45ACP primer pocket. My cases go right from the tumbler and into the Dillon 550 where they're sized and de-primed/re-primed at Station 1 of the merry-go-round.

If loading for bullseye competition it may be worthwhile to get more OCD; otherwise just load 'em up :25:

Maury

[C5M1]

+1 What Maury said, cept I give the primer pockets a quick turn with the pocket brush, no need to get too fussy.


regards, dennis

[Litt'le Lee]

your #2 pistol die bells your case to allow bullet insertion without carving the outside of the bullet and enlarges the opening to .001 less than the bullet diameter for correct bullet tension-you have to adjust the die to flare just enough for the bullet to set on the case mouth itself

[Parashooter]

http://i55.tinypic.com/2ilzz1u.jpg

http://i52.tinypic.com/2j31jkw.jpg

[joem]

Any SAMMI specs I've seen allow + - .010 on case length. Cases do not need to be cleaned to new looking. I like to clean my brass to get any crud off the outside but I have a friend that cleans them to look like new. I've never had to trim a straight walled pistol case. Seems they split before they get too long.

[Tuna]

As the others have said don't worry about case length with the .45 acp. It is one of the very few cases that does not lengthen but shrinks with each use. If you load them enought times they will finally not headspace as they are too short.

[Parashooter]

http://i56.tinypic.com/2142ibr.jpg

Fired once and sized in same carbide die. Without trimming, these two cases cannot be flared, have bullets seated, and flare removed (or mouths crimped) properly with the same die adjustment. Mixed .45 ACP brass needs either sorting or trimming to yield quality handloads.

[duke133]

All,
Thanks for the info. I did not know the "bell" was the was the same as flaring the casing for the bullet. Now I do. It is good to know I don't have to get OCD on this caliber. Does this also apply to the 9mm round since it's a straight case or does the ability of the 9 to have a hotter load not put it in the same catagory as the 45? Does the separating apply to all calibers? Thinking about it, it does make sense to load all the same brass at the same time due to the differences. I guess I'll make that SOP. In the 45's I only have 2 kinds but in the 9 it looks like I have several types of casings to separate including a lot of Nato brass and Speer. More work but I believe it's worth it.
Parashooter, thanks for the pics. They explain it all.
Thanks all.

[joem]

I don't bother with separating my pistol cases. I have set my powder funnel to bell a shorter case (dillon 650). If the case is too short, it's is not belled correctly and gets crushed. Much faster than separating all the cases. Anything that's crushed has the bullet pulled, powder saved and cases scraped.

[Maury Krupp]

Again, what you need or may want to do depends on what your accuracy or reliability requirements are.

If I was loading ammo that would be fired out of a tuned-up hardball pistol in the 50yd Slowfire stage of a Leg Match I'd probably get pretty OCD about it.

For plain old blammo for everyday use just load 'em and shoot 'em.

Separating by headstamp, trimming, cleaning/uniforming primer pockets, all that other rifle and/or benchrest stuff is a waste of time.

Set your dies for the lowest common denominator, check for neck splits (or wait to cull them when you seat the bullet) then start pulling the handle. Even if once in a blue moon you should happen to crush a case seating the bullet, balance that against the tedium of measuring every single case and trimming the one in 10,000 that may really need it.

My personal experience only covers .45ACP and .38SPL but none of the folks I know who shoot any other straight walled pistol cartridge (9mm, 10mm, .40S&W, .45GAP, .357Mag, etc, etc, etc) do anything else either. If you think the IPSC, IDPA, or similar shooters who go through hundreds or thousands of rounds each month do anything more than what's absolutely necessary you're kidding yourself.

Maury

[Hefights]

In reloading you always want to try to keep the same lot of brass together. Since most of us shoot "range brass" in pistol, that is tougher. I try to keep similar manufacturer and age of brass together. The school solution is that you should trim cases to be same length, the specified "trim to" length, for uniformity and best accuracy, and to ensure the flare and crimps are good. However for straight wall pistol shooting as in .45 ACP and 9mm most of us in fact do not do that, as you can see from the responses.

So you compromise by setting the die lower to lowest length anticipated, and/or accept that some of the cases will have a little bit wobbly bullet going into the seater die. I just finished a batch of 9mm on my Dillon 550. Viewed under a magnifying glass, the taper crimps are all good, so that is handling the various lengths pretty well. Occasionally there is a case without enough flare, but I am still able to make it work and keep the bullet stable enough going up into the seater without crushing the brass.

As Maury says, if we were loading for match guns, or for accuracy in competition where something is really on the line, we might use our best most uniform brass, and increase case prep by trimming, maybe even cleaning out the primer pockets.

Caution for 9mm: Case wall thickness in 9mm can vary more than some, and the amount of tension on the bullet can vary as well. In some instances you may not be able to resize enough to get enough tension, or may have to reset your dies. The bottom line is that if you are not careful, and the brass does not hold the bullet tightly, it can depress when chambering, greatly elevating pressures. I had this happen to me.

One way to check is after the seating step, you can try to push the bullet further into the case by hand, putting the nose firmly up against the table or a piece of wood and pushing hard. It should not depress by hand further into the case. Personal opinion, I also think there may be a practical limit to how many times you can reload 9mm brass, i.e. I believe the cases can weaken with time. I do not take my 9mm brass past 5 ot 6 loads. And I am more picky about what 9mm "range brass" I will pick up, for that reason. YMMV

[duke133]

Well, I went ahead and separated all the casings for the 9's, 45's and the 38 spl. yesterday. The 357's were all the same. With the exception of the 9's, all the casings are factory ammo once fired by me. The 9's also consist of some reloaded ammo I stumbled upon about 5 years ago along with factory ammo fired once. In separating the 9's I did discover some strange case markings and decided to discard them not knowing who made them. I also noticed on some, mainly ones marked A-Merc, the rims appeared to be slightly rounded instead of looking like the WW's, Nato, etc. casings. I have them to the side and think, once I get through reading the Lyman book and receive the supplies still somewhere between here and there, I'll try one or two and then see what happens in the backyard. Then I'll decide whether or not to keep them or give them to a friend that reclaims scrap metal. I'm just going to reload for target shooting in an effort to keep my factory ammo around a little longer. These reloaded rounds will not be for use in personal defense or hunting.
I guess I should have a bullet puller from some of your responses. Guess I better find one and order it. Any suggestions?
Thanks again to everyone for helping a newbie out. I'm sure I'll have more Q's coming down the pike.

[Maury Krupp]

The hammer-type bullet pullers are the cheapest and simplest to use. A little slow and fussy to load and unload but they usually leave the bullet unmarked.

The collet type that go in a press are faster but sometimes more complicated to set-up. If not adjusted right (and sometimes even if they are) they'll leave a ring around the bullet. Generally more suited to big jobs like making Mexican Match than reclaiming components from an occaisional "oops!"

Maury

[joem]

My experience with A-Merc has not been very good. I mic'd the case walls and they were .0015 thinner than the better grade of cases. I found that the bullets felt loose in the case before seating and crimping. They go directly to the scrap can.

[duke133]

Maury & Joem,
Guess I'll pick up a hammer puller and toss the A-Merc into the scrap can and go on from there. Thanks.

[Hefights]

My experience with A-Merc has not been very good. I mic'd the case walls and they were .0015 thinner than the better grade of cases. I found that the bullets felt loose in the case before seating and crimping. They go directly to the scrap can.

I have some A-Merc .45 ACP brass. It is the only brass I've ever had with primer pocket holes notably off center. I reloaded and it shot ok once. However 9mm can be even a little less forgiving in my view, and thus I can fully endorse Duke tossing the A-Merc brass, one way to avoid potential future problems.

I will probably toss mine too, just Google A-Merc, the forums around the net are filled with problem reports. Here is where it comes from:

http://www.afte.org/ExamResources/gallery2/v/Headstamp-Gallery/Letters_001/A/A_MERC.jpg.html

[duke133]

Hefights,
Thanks for the link. A-merc is already in the recycle bin.