Est. value of M1911 mfgd. early to mid 1917 ...

[Carl Casto]

Guys,

Would be interested in having your experienced opinions re the value of this M1911 mfgd. in 1917.

All of the inspector markings I can see from the photos on the exterior of the piece look correct for that period of circa 1917. Wooden grips have correct 15 rows of checkering between diamonds. And the patina seems consistent between the frame and the slide. ... Would you agree?

Seller describes as bluing mostly gone but with nice patina finish.

Wood grips very good condition.

Bore good with rifling intact but well used.

Smooth action.

Minor pit spots are on grip of the slide. Otherwise no rust or signif. pitting.

Function test works.

See attached pics on this an upcoming posts.

Thinking of buying it as a functional representative M1911 used in WW I (and perhaps WWII as well.)

It sure ain't no safe queen, that's for sure.

Thanks in advance,

Carl

[Carl Casto]

More pics ...

Carl

[Carl Casto]

... some more pics ...

[hitch 1911]

It should have a vertical H and P stamped on the hood of the barrel visable thru the ejection port and a two toned, pinned base unmarked magazine. If so, it appears to be original. Can't touch one on Gun Broker or Auction Arms for less than $1500.00

[Carl Casto]

It should have a vertical H and P stamped on the hood of the barrel visable thru the ejection port and a two toned, pinned base unmarked magazine. If so, it appears to be original. Can't touch one on Gun Broker or Auction Arms for less than $1500.00

Hitch,

Thanks for this information.

Will check for both characteristics once the piece arrives for 3-day inspection.

Can you, or anyone else, tell me something of the evolution of the lanyard loop on the frame of the M1911 pistol itself ... and on its magazine?

This particular M1911 (circa 1917) has the lanyard loop on the frame of the pistol itself. I believe this was true of the earlier M1911s.

Some of the early M1911s also seem to have lanyard loops on the magazine as well.

During what time frame did lanyard loops begin and end on the M1911 pistol frame itself?

And during what time frame did lanyard loops begin and end on the magazines of the M1911?

This info would be much appreciated.

Carl

[Johnny P]

The lanyard loop was standard on all the Model 1911 and 1911A1 pistols. The lanyard loop on the magazines was discontinued at the end of 1915.

[hitch 1911]

The lanyard loop and lanyard was a means of keeping the pistol and magazine attached to the soldier while riding on horseback(Calvary). The lanyard loop on the pistol remains on all military 1911/ a1s. The lanyard loop on the magazine went the way buggy whips. (Obselete)

[Johnny P]

The lanyard loop on the magazine was discontinued before there was a lanyard loop that would fit it. Ordnance decided the lanyard loop on the magazine was unnecessary. It appears that most of the lanyards found today are unissued.

[Carl Casto]

The lanyard loop and lanyard was a means of keeping the pistol and magazine attached to the soldier while riding on horseback(Calvary). The lanyard loop on the pistol remains on all military 1911/ a1s. The lanyard loop on the magazine went the way buggy whips. (Obselete)

Hitch,

Thanks for this info.

So the lanyard loop on the M1911 frame was intended for the cavalry. That would make sense.

That must be why I don't ever remember seeing any period photos of infantrymen (officers and noncoms) wearing a lanyard attached to their M1911.

Carl

[Carl Casto]

The lanyard loop was standard on all the Model 1911 and 1911A1 pistols. The lanyard loop on the magazines was discontinued at the end of 1915.

Johnny P.,

Thanks for this info.

Were both the lanyard loop on the butt of the M1911's frame and the lanyard loop on M1911 magazines (until end of 1915) intended primarily or solely for cavalry?

As I mentioned to Hitch, I don't ever remember seeing any period photos of infantrymen (officers and noncoms) wearing a lanyard attached to their M1911.

Just curious,

Carl

[Johnny P]

At the time the Model 1911 was adopted, the horse soldiers still had quite a bit of input into the design, but as mentioned previously there was no lanyard that would fit the Model 1911, and it wasn't until 1917 after the horse cavalry was nothing more than an outdated hold over that a lanyard was adopted. The lanyard loop was retained on the Model 1911A1, but again a new lanyard was not produced until 1943.

Since the Model 1917 Revolvers were a little more tedious to load than the Model 1911, maybe the lanyards brought out in 1917 were for the revolvers, as a lanyard had been previously issued with DA revolvers.

When it was decided that the Model 1911 would be issued with three magazines, it would have taken four lanyards to keep up with the pistol and magazines, and that didn't happen. Tales have been told of lanyards with double hooks, but to date I have not seen one nor seen one in any book.

[Carl Casto]

At the time the Model 1911 was adopted, the horse soldiers still had quite a bit of input into the design, but as mentioned previously there was no lanyard that would fit the Model 1911, and it wasn't until 1917 after the horse cavalry was nothing more than an outdated hold over that a lanyard was adopted. The lanyard loop was retained on the Model 1911A1, but again a new lanyard was not produced until 1943.

Since the Model 1917 Revolvers were a little more tedious to load than the Model 1911, maybe the lanyards brought out in 1917 were for the revolvers, as a lanyard had been previously issued with DA revolvers.

When it was decided that the Model 1911 would be issued with three magazines, it would have taken four lanyards to keep up with the pistol and magazines, and that didn't happen. Tales have been told of lanyards with double hooks, but to date I have not seen one nor seen one in any book.

Johnny P.

How about this one?

http://www.billybishop.net/images/lanyard.jpg

Found this referred to in another message board thread re M1911s and lanyards.

Just asking ... as I don't know if this is/was intended for an M1911 or not.

The poster on the other thread seemed to think it may have been ... FWIW ...

Carl

[Johnny P]

It has been crudely modified from an original lanyard. One of the cords was cut off the clip, and a new clip put on the cut off end. Also show is what it looked like before being modified.

http://i49.tinypic.com/2111n2s.jpg
http://i49.tinypic.com/biek8.jpg