What doI have here?

[hammer6048]

Bought this from a friend, he purchased six from an auction, cost me $325.00. It is a No4MK1/2 (P) FTR. Serial 751MB28681. All this is very faint,can hardly make the numbers out. Best I can do. On the bolt side of the rifle, on the receiver it just say's England. The stock has the letters ZF, on it. My first Enfield. Looks like it could use a better magazine, I am looking for one. Also in need of brass to load some ammo for it. Any idea when this was made? All this is new to me, I only have Garand's and Springfields. It looks like the thing has black paint on it, are these supposed to be blued or parkarized? Any info would be appreciated, thanks.

Mike

[Alan De Enfield]

It may be worth having it checked over by a qualified Enfield Gunsmith as ZF is armourers 'speak' for 'scrap it'.


Edit Just found Peter Laidlers notes on ZF (Basically -it is not safe to shoot)

The ZF mark.

The short answer to this is that the ZF marking to an Armourer means that this is the end of the line.

The Z means that it has been condemned at a Base workshop (that's the Z bit) as suitable only for a Factory Repair (that's the F part). This will indicate something to do with a part that cannot be rectified at Base Workshop and that is inevitably a damaged body. On a No4 rifle, this is what we call 'the master component', a part that is NEVER supplied as a spare part through the Ordnance channels.

There was only one other mark that was more extreme than ZF and that was ZF-BER. Which meant that in addition to the ZF, one of the examiners had decreed it to be beyond economic repair in any case. But effectively, both were the same......................

There was a milder Z-BER which indicated that it wasn't even worth sending to the factory and at workshops, these were torched!

So, the rifle your correspondent is referring to falls into one of three categories
1) scrap
2) very scrap
3) Extremely scrap

Now, the next thing………. The R-REME or ZF is painted or stamped onto the butt because there’s nowhere to paint it on the rifle body. Imagine a Bren with a jammed-up solid gas cylinder needing a FTR to replace it (and they do jam solid too…..). Would the examiner paint the ZF on the gas cylinder? OF course not! Look and think logically those forumers who think and write otherwise………… When we write off vehicles, we paint the word CAST in yellow paint on the bonnet, even if it’s a well worn out Bedford with a cracked and buckled chassis. Is that clear enough?

Now, the mystery of the ZF butts on allegedly ‘good’ rifles. I’ll ask you the obvious question with a statement first. Do YOU or your gunsmith have the gauging and examination kit that we have at even the lowest echelon unit Armourers shop? I doubt it but you never know… So the question is ‘just how do YOU know that the butt has been changed? The answer is that you don’t. Try to understand when I read constantly that the ZF butt has been changed! If it has, then remove the bloody ZF and be done with it. But don't let it stand there chuckling at you like a set of Christmas lights.

[Guamsst]

I agree with Alan. It is very likely that the butt has been changed....but, take it apart, make sure there are no holes drilled in it or cuts or other such crap. Get it headspaced (not super critical as Enfield chambers are usually sloppy, just make sure it is "safe") And if you really want to be safe......don't shoot it.

[hammer6048]

Thanks for the information. I find all of this interesting in that given the piece is "scrap" "unfit to shoot", that the "butt stock" is where they choose to indicate it's condition. Quite contray to logic that if there is a receiver problem that one would not stamp in the receiver such critical data. If as indicated as "scrap" then scrap it and not let it make its way to an importer. I will disassemble and inspect for "cuts" "drilling" etc. it has been shot by the previous owner, likely unknow to him the condition stamp. So there you have it. Any ideas, based upon the serial number the arsenal of manufacuture or date?




I agree with Alan. It is very likely that the butt has been changed....but, take it apart, make sure there are no holes drilled in it or cuts or other such crap. Get it headspaced (not super critical as Enfield chambers are usually sloppy, just make sure it is "safe") And if you really want to be safe......don't shoot it.

[Guamsst]

Well, you have to remember,

A.) It isn't necessarily unsafe. Maybe the bolt head guide gets broken or there is heavy rust pitting or some other condition the military does not justify as useable for combat or cost effective to repair.

B.) These rifles were only intended to be handled by armourers after they were marked ZF, not the general public.

C.) The reason it is unlikely that the rifle is unsafe is that most of these ZF rifles would likely be stripped for spares. Once the spare parts (ZF stocks included) were sold off to importers in the US there was no reason for them not to use the ZF marked stocks as parts to repair/build rifles and it would cost them money to remove the mark and refinish the stock.

D.) Peter Laidler might have said SCRAP but the armory did not. They said F as in Factory repair which is not actually scrap although it would usually end up that way.

[drweiler]

The 'ENGLAND' stamp is common on rifles imported from the U.K. to the U.S. before 1968. Military surplus rifles could not be imported again till after 1986, then requiring the importer's name stamped. 'FTR' means 'factory thorough repair' (rebuild), usually has the date next to it. Photos would help. 'ZF' is a concern as knowledgeable gentlemen have noted. Cheers, Don

[tlvaughn]

Any ideas, based upon the serial number the arsenal of manufacuture or date?

Based on info provided and no pics, here is my best guess:

Serial Number: MB28681 - Manufactured by ROF-Fazakerley in 1944

No4 MkI/2 (F) FTR - Converted from a No4 MkI to a No4 MkI/2 by Fazakerley (F) in July 1951 (7/51)

[hammer6048]

Based on info provided and no pics, here is my best guess:

Serial Number: MB28681 - Manufactured by ROF-Fazakerley in 1944

No4 MkI/2 (F) FTR - Converted from a No4 MkI to a No4 MkI/2 by Fazakerley (F) in July 1951 (7/51)

Thank you, the information is much appreciated. I am going to work at figuring out how to add photos here. Planning on shooting it in the CMP Vintage Match at Perry this year, providing I can find or secure some brass, bullets and get dies in time. Everything needed is on backorder at every reloading outlet. We'll see if anything arrives on time.

[John Kepler]

Oh.....just to add, the painted finish is CORRECT for that rifle. The paint (a product called "Suncorite") was applied over a very light Parkerizing that is designed to hold the paint, not be an exposed finish. It's almost ubiquitous in post-war FTR's.