View Full Version : Currious about double bayonet lugs on recent purchase?
I just bought my first Mauser and while examaning it found what looks like two bayonet lugs near the muzzle? I know pics are kind of dark but,
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/DSCN00504.JPG
Can anyone give me some insight into the origin of this, please? Not many markings on this rilfe other than cal. 7.92 followed by boxed in p and p? Thought rifle was a K98 but, bayonet lugs has me wondering, now? Lugs look like original bayo lug convered by front band covering original lug?
Sorry for the GIANT size, I'm playing with a new camera and software.
Steve
I'm absolutely no expert. This was done to allow a different style of bayonet to be mounted on that rifle. I think it was common with certain South American orders, but I don't know which, or whether it was common to any others.
That would appear to be the setup of the Spanish M43. The adaptor allowed for the use of the M1893 bayonet. There is a discussion about this and other "scrubbed" Mausers @ "Scrubbed Brazillion Mauser" 03-12-2013 in this section. From what I've observed the "scrubbed" M43's (I have one, and have seen a few @ gunshows) appear to be either new or arsenal refurbished. None that I've seen appear to have been issued. All that I've seen have only the markings which you've noted on the left side of the receiver, just above the wood line.. It would seen that at some point after WWII somebody was in the market for Mausers but the sellers didn't want their national identity on them, likely due to issues of neutrality.
NOTE: There is also a Spanish M44, which is very similar to the M43 other than is has only one set of sling mounts (on the left side of the stock) , no adaptor for the older bayonet, and protective side wings on the front sight, kind of like the U.S. M1917. It seems that M44's were commonly used by the Spanish Air Force. In the previously mentioned discussion on the "Scrubbed" Brazillion Mauser I noted that I owned an M44. That was a mistake, I have an M43.
I recently took this Mauser out again to examine closer and found these quirous marks?
this looks to be tool marks in the stock but it's everwhere on the stock?
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/DSCN00595.JPG
the only thing that resembles a serial number on this gun
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/DSCN00605.JPG
these mark or proofs are all over any metal parts(looks like a group of flowers)
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/DSCN00585.JPG
Another question, how do I determine if this is a Spanish Mauser?
Thanx, Steve
The "double" bayonet adaptor is common on mausers from Spain and some South American countries. Allows the use of an older bayonet, which was apparently available in quantity.
The Artgintine model 1891 and 1909 are excellent examples of this use of old Bayo's on newer rifles. The bar type was adopted by Mauser in 1898 , earlier models had the lug on the bottom of front band. They had many of the old bayos in excellent condition so instead of buying new ones they had the adoptor added and used the old model bayo's. Also had the advantage of being able to go to new bayo's by just removing the adoptor.
You can show a picture of the to of the receiver if you want a definitive answer but basedon what you have already shown it is a Spanish Mauser. Could be a '43 or '44.
Then tell me what the proof mark is? Is this on all Spanish Mausers? I confess ignorance but, getting information from you guys is like pulling teeth.
Steve
Getting good clear pics of all markings from you is also "like pulling teeth"! It appears the rifle has had all the markings scrubbed (or ground off). Those may be proofs/inspection stamps on side but also could be part of import mark. Caliber is hardly ever marked on a rifle by the using country, but is required by import regs. Definatly not a K98k and certainly Spanish, made in Spain. Exact model? who can tell?
Definitely an M43, one of those which were apparently arsenal refurbished under a post WWII contract to supply what we might call "clandestine" interests. Most standard Spanish arsenal markings were "scrubbed" and new markings, including it seems a new serial number, applied. All of this lot that I've seen have fairly low serial #'s (mine is 78XX), bolt and receiver #'s match but not floor plates etc. Typical too is the fact that the barreled receiver is parkerized, rather than blued. ALL of the rifles which I've seen of this configuration appear to be in newly refurbished condition, I've yet to see one with any field wear on it whatsoever. Standard Spanish M43's or not uncommon at gun shows, but they always show considerable wear and they do have the expected Spanish government markings in them. All of these rifles that I've seen were imported prior to the 1968 embargo (AKA: 1968 Gun control Act). I suspect that the caliber designation on the receiver ring, which would not commonly be found on standard, government issued M43's, was applied for the benefit of the intended "end users" of these contract rifles; many of whom might not be the best trained personnel. Surplus arms imported prior to 68 required no markings by the U.S. government. My hunch would be that the intended buyer of these weapons never took delivery for who knows what reasons and they laid in some warehouse. I have old Rifleman magazines from the early 60's with advertisments offering "like new" Spanish M43's. That's probably when this bunch of guns made their way to the U.S. NOTE: a condition of the mid 1980's legislation, which once again allowed the import of surplus military arms for civilian sale, was that the weapon had to be stamped with the name of the importer/distributor and caliber.
Definitely an M43, one of those which were apparently arsenal refurbished under a post WWII contract to supply what we might call "clandestine" interests. Most standard Spanish arsenal markings were "scrubbed" and new markings, including it seems a new serial number, applied. All of this lot that I've seen have fairly low serial #'s (mine is 78XX), bolt and receiver #'s match but not floor plates etc. Typical too is the fact that the barreled receiver is parkerized, rather than blued. ALL of the rifles which I've seen of this configuration appear to be in newly refurbished condition, I've yet to see one with any field wear on it whatsoever. Standard Spanish M43's or not uncommon at gun shows, but they always show considerable wear and they do have the expected Spanish government markings in them. All of these rifles that I've seen were imported prior to the 1968 embargo (AKA: 1968 Gun control Act). I suspect that the caliber designation on the receiver ring, which would not commonly be found on standard, government issued M43's, was applied for the benefit of the intended "end users" of these contract rifles; many of whom might not be the best trained personnel. Surplus arms imported prior to 68 required no markings by the U.S. government. My hunch would be that the intended buyer of these weapons never took delivery for who knows what reasons and they laid in some warehouse. I have old Rifleman magazines from the early 60's with advertisments offering "like new" Spanish M43's. That's probably when this bunch of guns made their way to the U.S. NOTE: a condition of the mid 1980's legislation, which once again allowed the import of surplus military arms for civilian sale, was that the weapon had to be stamped with the name of the importer/distributor and caliber.
Thank you very much for helping a dummy learn.
Steve
That would appear to be the setup of the Spanish M43. The adaptor allowed for the use of the M1893 bayonet. There is a discussion about this and other "scrubbed" Mausers @ "Scrubbed Brazillion Mauser" 03-12-2013 in this section. From what I've observed the "scrubbed" M43's (I have one, and have seen a few @ gunshows) appear to be either new or arsenal refurbished. None that I've seen appear to have been issued. All that I've seen have only the markings which you've noted on the left side of the receiver, just above the wood line.. It would seen that at some point after WWII somebody was in the market for Mausers but the sellers didn't want their national identity on them, likely due to issues of neutrality.
Go back and read the above again. Its the second answer to your original post, by kcw. That said it all to begin with! Pulling teeth? Shesssse!
I'm especailly interested in finding out what this mark is and who used it, please?
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/DSCN00585.JPG
Steve
Argentine M 1909 7.65 The double bayou mount was to let it use a boyou other then the original. Looks like rebarreled for 7.92 (8x57) Mauser. WW1 last ditch? More picts would help. Fun stuff.
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