Rem. arms armor piercing?

[gmg1183]

I picked up a bunch of 1943 dated Rem. arms armor piercing ammo 30-06. I am pulling them down for the bullets, they are 165 gr.. It has about 49.5 grains of powder in them, the powder looks and smells good (Extruded type). Does anyone know what powder this is, and would you reuse it? I know that the primers are corrosive, that is why I am pulling them.
T.I.A.

[jimb]

I'ld load 1:1 on the powder. It is probably 4895, but there is no way to be sure. Just switch primers and put the same powder back in at the same weight. It should be fine.

[joem]

If they are all the same headstamp weigh a sample from many cartridges and find the average charge. Then set your powder drop and reload them. You might find that the brass splits after firing once. Some old brass is brittle.

[gmg1183]

Thanks for the input. I weighed out a quite a few on the powder weight and got a pretty consistent 49.5 grains. All the old brass was head stamped RA43. I have not pushed out unused primers out of brass before so I figured that I would use different brass with new primers for now.
Thanks again

[joem]

Use the old cases but you may have to swedge the primer pockets. Military ammo has crimped primer pockets which need to be swedged. You only have to do it once. There are tools on the market to make this job easier. I use the Dillon super swedge but I think RCBS makes one to work in a press. Good luck, if you have any questions either post here or PM me.

[psteinmayer]

As for pushing out the old primers, if they ARE crimped... go slow and use moderate pressure and you should be fine. As jimb mentioned, the powder may be 4895... Didn't they use cordite in 1943?

If the brass is brittle, you could try annealing the cases before you prime them. This will help normalize the case necks and may prevent splitting. I'm not sure if they annealed cases back in the 40s... Anyone want to weigh in on that?

[Parashooter]

All this seems a lot of work just to avoid firing corrosive primers. It would be a heap easier to use the ammunition as-is and clean with water as was done back when the ammo was new. A thorough water cleaning followed by the normal clean and oil/grease routine will effectively remove the potassium chloride residue which would otherwise cause rust when ambient relative humidity goes above about 60%. Sure beats wasting all those primers and the effort expended to remove/replace them.

p.s. - Have you ever seen cordite? There's no way of mistaking this stringy British stuff for normal US granular propellants.

http://i40.tinypic.com/1z3vwx1.jpg

[joem]

The cordite was used in .303 british. Most likely the RA will have 4895 which is a stick powder. If you shoot corrosive primers in a semi auto your going to have to completly dismantle it and give it a hot soapy water wash. For me it was easier to pull and save the components and reload the cases using new primers. If you shoot in a bolt gun just wash out the chamber and barrel.

[psteinmayer]

p.s. - Have you ever seen cordite? There's no way of mistaking this stringy British stuff for normal US granular propellants.

I have to admit... as soon as I logged off last night, I realized what I had posted. I have seen cordite... and yes, I know that they didn't use it in US ammo. Thanks Para for the great picture and also for the great info on cleaning after using corrosive primers.

[Matt Anthony]

If it were me with the corrosive ammo, I would not in any way, shape or form shoot those in any gun, even if it's a throwaway gun. The salts are toxic and it's certainly not a good idea to inhale the combustion by-product. If you do shoot corrosive ammo, and you do not completely remove all residue, your gun will not be the same, ever!

I have a customer who bought a case of WWII 45acp ammo which was corrosive. He was warned not to shoot it in his brand new Colt Officers model which I sold him. He told me I didn't know what I was talking about. I warned him, however he knew better. The next Saturday he went to the range and shot a 50 round box. Two weeks later he came into my shop and asked me what was wrong with the 45, he couldn't chamber a round. The gun barrel and frame were completely rusted, pitted beyond repair. We did clean it out with hot soapy water and a scrub brush, but the barrel was too far gone and the frame pitted.

Never, never fire corrosive ammo unless you know how to properly clean after firing!

Matt

[togor]

If it were me with the corrosive ammo, I would not in any way, shape or form shoot those in any gun, even if it's a throwaway gun. The salts are toxic and it's certainly not a good idea to inhale the combustion by-product. If you do shoot corrosive ammo, and you do not completely remove all residue, your gun will not be the same, ever!

The US WW2-era primers are non-mercuric. German corrosive primers from that era still have mercury in them, IIRC. But in any case a lot of guys shot a lot of corrosive-primed ammo, and survived the experience without apparent long-term damage. So if there is a specific health hazard you have in mind, I would be interested to hear of it.

[togor]

Thanks for the input. I weighed out a quite a few on the powder weight and got a pretty consistent 49.5 grains. All the old brass was head stamped RA43. I have not pushed out unused primers out of brass before so I figured that I would use different brass with new primers for now.
Thanks again

Well you could just first fire off the primers in an old bolt gun then clean out the residue good, although I made a jig to hold the case while I snapped off the striker on an '03 bold to fire the primer. Wear hearing, eye and hand protection, to be safe, and do in a well-ventilated area. The primer makes a lot of noise, but it's not going to fly around or anything. Decapping live, crimped, corrosive primers sounds like a job to maybe avoid if possible.

[psteinmayer]

If it were me with the corrosive ammo, I would not in any way, shape or form shoot those in any gun, even if it's a throwaway gun. The salts are toxic and it's certainly not a good idea to inhale the combustion by-product. If you do shoot corrosive ammo, and you do not completely remove all residue, your gun will not be the same, ever!

Not to be disagreeable, but I must digress...

The military used the ammo for Ever-And-A-Day. If the ammo were indeed toxic, then the military would not have allowed continued use once it was discovered. Also, there are literally scads military weapons out there in great condition, and all have fired corrosive ammo. Now I know that the military teaches proper cleaning techniques, but lets be real here... not every soldier was a perfect soldier (in the Navy, we would have called them 4.0 Sailors). I'm sure that more than a few (hundred) or so weapons were not properly cleaned, and yet still exist and function perfectly. I'm not saying that corrosive ammo does not warrant special care and extra special cleaning attention to detail... but what I am saying is that with proper care, it's not the end of the world! Militry weapons are designed to take a hell of a beating and still function properly. Civilian guns are not quite so tolarent, so a civilian gun would need to be cleaned very carefully, but should still be fine.

I fired 50 rounds of military .45 ACP in my Taurus PT145 with no ill effects, and no damage whatsoever. Now I know some people are going to point out that the PT145 has a polymer frame, but the slide, slide frame, and barrel are not... they are steel.

Here's something else to mention... and this is in no way a statement about anyones cleaning techniques... but pitting does not set in in one week! Surface rust yes. Pitting? No way! In hardened steel, pitting takes a very long time. I have some hardened steel tools that were given to me. They had been neglected for years and were very rusty, yet had very little pitting. Food for thought.

[BigMo]

What others have said, namely Para, I wouldn't spend all that time- I'd just shoot as/is and clean my rifle after.
But it's your time and effort- Enjoy!

[John Sukey]

The answer to corrosive primers is to clean the firearm the SAME day you shoot it. Showing my age. but the gubmint issued me a Garand. After a day at the range, we field stripped the rifles , took them into the latrine, and ran hot water down the barrels. Then cleaned them with the usual bore cleaner and patches. NOBODY had a "rusty barrel" As for your customer, he obviously didn't CLEAN the pistol.