Idiots guide to black powder?

[Guamsst]

Anyone know of a good source of info on using blackpowder firearms. Something catering to a person who has never fired one and wants to but has no resources for info?

Things like how to measure powder, determine powder load, selecting projectiles...etc on a very basic level.

[ebeeby]

Others will be able to give you a lead on a BP 101 book. But I wanted to make the point that BP is very unstable and static sparks can have tragic consequences. Therefore, plastic must NEVER be used around BP. You also need to think about where you will store your BP in the metal cans it comes in.
Powder measure is done with a scale using grains.
Bullets can be cast or purchased and bullet lube is extremely important.

[JBinIll]

Here's one-

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/273/1/BOOK-LBPH

[JBinIll]

Others will be able to give you a lead on a BP 101 book. But I wanted to make the point that BP is very unstable and static sparks can have tragic consequences. Therefore, plastic must NEVER be used around BP.

Ummmm...........how come everybody,including GOEX is putting powder in plastic bottles.Tin powder cans are about a thing of the past.

[joem]

I used toshoot a lot of BP but quit cause it's too nasty to clean unless your home. And Don't wash out you rifle in the bath tub, it leaves a terrible black ring in the tub which the wife doesn't like.:sign12:

[ebeeby]

Ummmm...........how come everybody,including GOEX is putting powder in plastic bottles.Tin powder cans are about a thing of the past.

I haven't seen BP in plastic (pyrodex yes) but then I haven't bought any in a year.

Personally, I'd never buy BP in a plastic bottle.

[Doug Rammel]

In the 60's I bought Goex BP in 25 lb kegs. The kegs were metal but after you open them the BP was in a large plastic bag. I would transfer it to 1 Lb cans by pouring it using a funnel.

You may want to check this link.

http://www.brimstonepistoleros.com/articles/staticelectricity.html

[JBinIll]

One of the black powder clubs bought bulk BP,came in a plastic bag in a cardboard box.Swiss,Schuetzen,and Grafs come in plastic bottles.People who have bought GOEX recently said they came in plastic bottles now.

[Guamsst]

I have yet to get a spark off plastic that I would worry about around powder. Synthetic clothing would worry me much more. The book from track of the wolf looks like a good idea. I may just buy it.

[older than dirt]

Others will be able to give you a lead on a BP 101 book. But I wanted to make the point that BP is very unstable and static sparks can have tragic consequences. Therefore, plastic must NEVER be used around BP. You also need to think about where you will store your BP in the metal cans it comes in.
Powder measure is done with a scale using grains.
Bullets can be cast or purchased and bullet lube is extremely important.

You don`t measure BP by wt. It is measured by Volum.

[ClaudeH]

I've wondered if those bottles where somehow mad conductive to avoid sparks?

Then again I've bought commercial single loaders that were plastic - one capped end for powder and the other for patched ball or bullet.

[jon_norstog]

Guam,

Two ways to shoot BP: cartridge or front-loader. Pick your poison first, then pick your weapon. If you're shooting a rifle FG or 2FG is the s**T. Pistols use 3 or 4FG. Best bullets are the ones you make, 20 to 30 parts lead to 1 part tin. Most commercial cast are too hard. You can measure BP by volume without affecting accuracy or blowing up your gun. Clean the bore with hot soapy water soon as you are done shooting, and ditto the brass if you are shooting cartridges. A lot of BP cartridge guns like it if you fire a fouling shot before you start a target string.

That's about it. Good luck!

jn

[k arga]

go to americanlongrifles or traditional muzzel loading .com ,there you can find anything you need to know

[Bill H]

I believe you do measure BP by weight,, then measure the modern substitutes by equivalent volume.

[JBinIll]

Anyone know of a good source of info on using blackpowder firearms. Something catering to a person who has never fired one and wants to but has no resources for info?

Things like how to measure powder, determine powder load, selecting projectiles...etc on a very basic level.

Buy the Lyman book,learn the basics,adapt what you can use forget the rest.The muzzle loading forums,just like here,multiple suggestions of what to do based on personal preferences,pretty soon the newcomer is so confused he just says the hell with it too complicated and it's not.

[dave]

Well, the charges are given in GRAINs a unit of wieght! BP measure devises are set at grain markings, a dipper for instance, All BP substitutes that I know of are measured by eqivilant BP volume. In other words if the load is 50 gr. BP you use the same volume as the BP, but it will not be 50 gr. weight.
Lyman, New England and other makers print booklets that give basic instuctions and loads. These are free usually, do a google search. Also DB books has a very complete BP instruction book. Consider using AmericanPowder (Shockleys) substitute. Clean burning, no fouling, but still corrisive. I have not used BP in years.
And anyone who thinks you can not blow up a BP gun is living in dreamland! BP burns VERY fast, grain size controlls burn rate to some extent.

[macPA]

google JS publications He is a cas shooter and has good information
I am shooting BP in cas using 1858 Remingtons in .44 cap and ball (Uberti made)
45 colt rifle (44-40 would be better)
and 12 ga shot for shot gun

[dogtag]

I haven't seen BP in plastic (pyrodex yes) but then I haven't bought any in a year.

Personally, I'd never buy BP in a plastic bottle.

Then you're not going to be buying it in the future.
KIK now comes in plastic. Other brands will follow.
The metal cans are a thing of the past for smokeless,
Black and nearly everything else.
Plus I use the Lee plastic dippers for BP.

[DocCasualty]

Guam,

If you're shooting a rifle FG or 2FG is the s**T. Pistols use 3 or 4FG.
Classic recommendations are Fg-musket, FFg -rifle, FFFg-pistol, FFFFg-flintlock flashpan. As you get used to using them, you do find that you have some leeway there. For instance, I use FFg in my Brown Bess and don't see a lot of difference between it and the Fg, though might be a little more reliable touch off. All of my experience is with flintlocks, so take that FWIW. Smaller caliber rifles are better suited to FFFg than FFg. The only thing I might be more cautious about was using FFFFg as a main load. I'm not saying you can't, especially with a small caliber pistol, though you could easily end up with a much higher pressure load than you might have intended, so proceed with caution.

[k arga]

start off charge will be as a rule one and a half the caliber, 45 cal about 60 gr 3f,

[older than dirt]

Somebody ought to strighten this OP out. BP is measured in volume not wt. Dippers are in volume not wt. 60 grains by volume not wt. There are grains in wt & grains in volume. Just like oz`s in liquid or dry. Liquid in volume, dry in wt.

[ClaudeH]

Here's one-

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/273/1/BOOK-LBPH

I vouch for Fadala's book (above). It is interesting, authoritative and comprehensive.

[ClaudeH]

BTW: "suggesting that blackpowder is supposed to be measured by volume, or was designed to be. This is absolute rubbish."

This is from an article at: http://www.chuckhawks.com/blackpowder_volumetric.htm

[older than dirt]

BTW: "suggesting that blackpowder is supposed to be measured by volume, or was designed to be. This is absolute rubbish."

This is from an article at: http://www.chuckhawks.com/blackpowder_volumetric.htm

Ok, you got me, I never said how it was designed to be measured, but I haven`t seen a BP measurement yet for using a scale , & all the BP revolvers & rifles I have all say the charge in Volume not scale Wt. I`ve been shooting BP since the 1950`s. I also know a number of gents who shoot BP competion (Winchester Va & other places) & are very good at it & have the medals to prove it & they too measure BP by Volume. All the BP measures I`ve ever saw were in volume.

[ebeeby]

Ok, you got me, I never said how it was designed to be measured, but I haven`t seen a BP measurement yet for using a scale , & all the BP revolvers & rifles I have all say the charge in Volume not scale Wt. I`ve been shooting BP since the 1950`s. I also know a number of gents who shoot BP competion (Winchester Va & other places) & are very good at it & have the medals to prove it & they too measure BP by Volume. All the BP measures I`ve ever saw were in volume.

Hatcher discusses this as well in his "Notebook" showing that because of the various grain sizes, "volumes" will differ by as much as 10%

[ClaudeH]

Ok, you got me, I never said how it was designed to be measured, but I haven`t seen a BP measurement yet for using a scale , & all the BP revolvers & rifles I have all say the charge in Volume not scale Wt. I`ve been shooting BP since the 1950`s. I also know a number of gents who shoot BP competion (Winchester Va & other places) & are very good at it & have the medals to prove it & they too measure BP by Volume. All the BP measures I`ve ever saw were in volume.

older than dirt,

I'm glad you took that well, I was afraid it might have sounded insulting. When you think about it, weighing is absolutely impractical for muzzleloaders - Could you see Daniel Boone pulling a balance beam and weights out of his possibles bag every time he loaded a shot? But as a means of designating any quantity of black powder more exactly than "enough to cover the ball in the palm of your hand", weight is easier and more universally accessible to ascertain than volume.

Poring over the information at the Laflin & Rand site http://www.laflinandrand.com/ I discovered that there is a close, discernable relationship between weight and volume that could be used as a guide in creating the chamber in a charger or etc. (Of course there is, but I mean to say it is known and fairly consistent.) I can't immediately point to it but it becomes obvious upon reading the info at that site. When I once sought advice on blackpowder forums as to how you might corelate weight and volume if you were drilling a cavity in a horn tip or etc. no one seemed to know the relationship.

[m1ashooter]

The old Dixie Gun Works Catalog used to have a good chart in the back of suggested loads. I'm a Brown Bess and long rifle user and found 3F works. Never had a can of 2F or 4F. I use a .495 patched round ball in the long rifle and a .715 round ball or buck and ball or buck only or shot only in the Bess.

[John Sukey]

I would mention that with civillian flintlocks there was a priming grade for the flash pan (4F) and a coarser grade to go down the barrel.

[dave]

When you load a BP gun you use a, lets call it a dipper or small container. These have a scale if the measure is adjustable or a number if its only one size. That scale or number represents the appox. weight of the amount it holds in 'grains weight'! It should/will be pretty close and the books will recommend like 30 grains 3F, etc. You will not go wrong if you follow this. You can adjust some up or down to look for the most accurate load. Revolvers are limited by cylinder size.
So---- you use a volume container to load the gun BUT that container holds X number of grains, which is known. What is so hard to understand?

[Billy Beeza]

Did you ever find a book with the info you were looking for? If not, I have an older copy of Fadala's book I'd be happy to send you. If you still need it, email me at billmartiny@bellsouth.net.

[Fred Pillot]

I needed to edit this. The book I have is the Speer 10th edition loading manual.

My RCBS reloading manual has a good chapter on loading black powder fire arms. The hows and whys. Don't recall the revision # of the book, but I bought it new in the early 1980's

[holdover]

Just some thoughts on BP, if you want extreme accuracy you measure by weight, it is about the only way you will be consistant shot to shot. Many BP shooters who compete, pre make their charge by weighing. It is not a good idea to load out of say a powder horn. If you are using a musket with a minie ball use pure lead, save the alloy, 20-1/30-1 etc for breechloaders. 3F gives great accuracy and is most likely used by more shooters at N-SSA than any other powder, some use 2F, never seen anyone use 1F

now for some examples from personal experience Springfield 2 band musket, bobby hoyt barrel .577 bore, hogdon wad cutter which weighs about 405 grains,cast from a .578 mold sized to .576, 45 gr goex 3f, german cap around 1" groups at 100yds, ragged hole at 50. Sharps 3 band 1863 rifle by shiloh sharps, 54 cal shooting rapine ringtail, 64gr 3F in a charlie haun tube, CCI 6 wing cap, 2.5" groups at 200 yds. 1862 H & P smoothbore, 690 bore, 684 round ball rolled on a farriers rasp coated with alox, 75 grains 3F german cap, ragged hole at 25 yds about 3" groups at 50yds. All above accuracy from a rest, in my shoulder a tad bigger 1858 Remington Rev, 454 round ball, 20 grains 3F, german caps, 1" groups in ransom rest at 25yds. good lube 3 parts crisco, 1 part beeswax, there are others that also work well, the idea is to keep the fouling soft. If you want to spend a bit extra $20 vs 13 a pound buy Swiss BP about as accurate as it gets and burns cleaner. been shooting CW smoke poles for over 50 yrs many people are suprised how accurate they can be.

[jim c 351]

Anyone know the original black powder load for the 38 S&W cartridge.
3F black ???
Jim C
Thanks

[JBinIll]

Anyone know the original black powder load for the 38 S&W cartridge.
3F black ???
Jim C
Thanks

The Winchester 1894 catalog lists 14 grains black powder but does not specify a granulation.

[jim c 351]

JB,
Thanks,
Jim C

[coastie]

And a note to the new user of black powder......Dawn dishwashing detergent.
And a heat gun--from another thread!

[dave]

start off charge will be as a rule one and a half the caliber, 45 cal about 60 gr 3f,

I assume you speak of rifles? Never saw a revolver chamber that would hold 60 gr. except maybe a Walker or dragoon. It would be a hefty load for any pistol.

[Southron]

Static Electricity won't ignite black powder. Check out this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5Z5yAeO3dw

[James Kelly]

My Swiss powder comes in black plastic containers. I would really like to believe that the "black" is from graphite added to keep any static electric charge from building.
I would like to believe this, hope I am right.

[Dolt]

Others will be able to give you a lead on a BP 101 book. But I wanted to make the point that BP is very unstable and static sparks can have tragic consequences. Therefore, plastic must NEVER be used around BP. You also need to think about where you will store your BP in the metal cans it comes in.
Powder measure is done with a scale using grains.
Bullets can be cast or purchased and bullet lube is extremely important.

Powder measuring with BP should be done by volume. If done by weight and the charge does not fill the case, cornmeal, cream of wheat or some other like substance must be used to fill the remainder of the case. All loads MUST be compressed!!!