Remington A3/Corona A3 production crossover

[Allen Humphrey]

Does anybody know for sure if any partially completed SC receivers ended up at Remington when SC production stopped in Feb '44? Depending on the answers I'll either share some pictures or discover that I am a day late as usual:)

[Art]

Anything is possible but that is extremely unlikely. Remington had plenty of parts including receivers when they stopped production and when hen production stopped it stopped all at once. Most of very large numbers of parts left over were sold for scrap or used to refurbish rifles coming in for overhaul. A lot of the parts were bought by gun and gun parts enterprises at the scrap price and wound up in the parts market where they were sold at budget prices through the early 1970s.

[John Beard]

Does anybody know for sure if any partially completed SC receivers ended up at Remington when SC production stopped in Feb '44? Depending on the answers I'll either share some pictures or discover that I am a day late as usual:)

I cannot rule out all possibility that partially-completed SC receivers ended up at Remington. But, that possibility is extremely unlikely. I have documents from the National Archives showing that the Ordnance Dept. closed out the Smith-Corona contract by reimbursing their expense for a small quantity of leftover receivers. Some of those leftover receivers were subsequently installed on Mann Accuracy barrels. And at least one was disposed of by the DCM as a loose receiver.

According to Campbell, Remington and Smith-Corona received notice of contract cancellation at about the same time, and both contracts were closed out at about the same time (Feb, 1944). So, I don't know what purpose would have been served by transferring partially-completed receivers from Smith-Corona to Remington, since both were winding down at the same time. Transferring material between contractors required high level approvals because contract values were affected and had to be renegotiated. Material transfers, therefore, were not a trivial matter.

I also dispute other points which have been made with regard to contract closeouts. Remington and Smith-Corona received more than two months notice of pending contract cancellation. Such notice is customary in defense contracting so that contracts can be closed out in an orderly manner and employees (voters) are not terminated without reasonable notice. Production, therefore, does not end abruptly, and Remington documents in my file confirm this point. All Remington and Smith-Corona leftover parts and material were government property and they were not at liberty to dispose of it. All leftovers were turned over to the government.

O.K., let's see your pictures while I go searching for my bottle of ketchup. Crow tastes better with ketchup.

J.B.

[Allen Humphrey]

Art and JB, thanks for the response. I'll try to lay out the reason for my question. I'll admit right up front that there are other possible solutions other than my suggestion that some SC receivers made it to Remington. Your comment about the Mann might play in.

Background: All Remington A3 receivers that I have seen have a left rail and thumb relief cut that is very smooth and rounded such as this picture on the right


conversely all Smith Corona A3 receivers save a few notable exceptions, have a fairly flat and small thumb relief in the left rail such as this picture on the left.



More to come: I can't seem to manage the pictures like I want

[Allen Humphrey]

to continue: Yesterday I came across a Mann device on GB and I happened to notice that the left rail looked just like a SC, yet it was clearly marked as a Remington. Again more below

[Allen Humphrey]

After looking around some more I found several more examples of Remingtons with a similar rail, all had serials from 4.18 mil to 4.19 mil . According to VI Shooter those dates would correspond to late Jan to Feb '44. Since SC production shut down about the same time as JB stated, I just speculated that perhaps some receivers got finished and serialized by Rem.

[Allen Humphrey]

So, before someone beats me to it, I recognize that the Remingtons in question may have just been the result of cost cutting, mistakes, or even a work cell that was broken down and bypassed. I just thought the correlation to the SC production stop was interesting as a possibility.

Ok. I'm done :)


PS notice how close the serial numbers are on the Mann and the other remington I posted just above.

[John Beard]

What you have picked up on is a design change made by Remington. I have been tracking that design change for many years. In addition to the early rounded left rail and the late flat left rail, there are some semi-rounded left rails during a transition period. And I have data tracking that transition.

But, I had not noticed that Remington changed the style of the left thumb relief cut on late rifles to match Smith-Corona's. I'll have to gather some data on that transition.

And I suppose you had noticed that the very early Smith-Corona rifles have no left thumb relief cut. Absence of the cut was an oversight on Smith-Corona's part and they had to obtain a temporary waiver from the Chief of Ordnance in order to sell-off their first rifles.

J.B.

p.s.,

I found my bottle of ketchup. Would you like for me to send it to you? :hello:

[Allen Humphrey]

Hey, ketchup goes with anything. Better than bore cleaner anyway:) Your description makes perfect sense and I'm not surprised that there is another explanation for the different design. I couldn't find any pictures of 4.2 mil Remingtons to see if the change was permanent or otherwise.

Interesting that Remington A) waited so long to make the design change, and B) decided to make the design change so late in production. Of course they probably had approval prior to notification of the contract termination. If anyone has a picture of a 4.2 mil Rem receiver, please share it.

thanks!

[John Beard]

You have uncovered an unusual phenomenon. I have a photo of Remington M'03-A3, S/N 4203397, and it shows the earlier style thumb relief cut. The left receiver rail, however is flat.

I'll have to gather more data on the thumb relief cut. I'll also have to figure out how to distinguish a Smith-Corona receiver from a Remington receiver just in case there was a parts transfer.

Interesting!

J.B.

[Bob in WA]

John

Remington s/n 4115968 that has the thumb relief cut and the flat rail. Barrel dated 9-43

Bob

[John Beard]

John

Remington s/n 4115968 that has the thumb relief cut and the flat rail. Barrel dated 9-43

Bob

Interesting.

Thanks!

J.B.

[Allen Humphrey]

found some 4.1 to 4.2 mil pictures online:

[JMR1138]

What you have picked up on is a design change made by Remington. I have been tracking that design change for many years. In addition to the early rounded left rail and the late flat left rail, there are some semi-rounded left rails during a transition period. And I have data tracking that transition.

But, I had not noticed that Remington changed the style of the left thumb relief cut on late rifles to match Smith-Corona's. I'll have to gather some data on that transition.

And I suppose you had noticed that the very early Smith-Corona rifles have no left thumb relief cut. Absence of the cut was an oversight on Smith-Corona's part and they had to obtain a temporary waiver from the Chief of Ordnance in order to sell-off their first rifles.

J.B.

p.s.,

I found my bottle of ketchup. Would you like for me to send it to you? :hello:

Can you shed some more light on the serial # range of the transition period? I have a 4.04 mil Remington that looks like the 3.55 mil posted above.