Gewehr 88 Model 1888 Commission Rifle

[ldpfeifer]

I am looking for ammo for this WW2 war prize my uncle sent home in 41. It has the "S" markings that it was converted, but the barrel slugged was .311. It DOES NOT have the cut out for the spritzer bullet or any other modifications that went with the "S".
8mm Remington Mauser rounds will not chamber due to the bullet I believe. They will go in about half way and stick. I do think this gun still takes the Patrone 88 bullet which sat on 7.92x57 round. Any idea where I can find some ammo for this old relic of past, or some type of bullet to use on top of the Remington Mauser rounds at a lower powder charge that will work?
Thanks in advance for any help.

[kcw]

200gr., .318 Woodleigh bullets @ MidwayUSA.com How tight they'll fit in the Remington cases after pulling .323 bullets is questionable. I've heard of guys that have standard .323 dies putting a bit of a crimp on the case neck so as to hold the .318's from dropping into the case. Never tried it myself.

[RCS]

You should be able to find some original military or SP cartridges for your Model 1888 rifle to see if they chamber. Gun shows and cartridge collectors have these early M1888 cartridges or re-slug your bore again

[randy langford]

Something is not right with that chamber get a bore light and check it out my non altered 88 will chamber a standard 196 grain 8 mm round just not safe to fire and any rifle with the s stamp should have the altered chamber they didn't rebore the barrel they just opened up the throat as I understand it.

[kcw]

"They will go in only about half way and stick". Following up on Mr. Langford, I'm thinking that there's a piece of broken shell, or some such, stuck in the chamber neck. I just compared the ogive on a factory Remington RN vs. Turk GI round by scribing each in the muzzle of one of my guns. The Remington ogive mark is only about 1/64th longer than the comparable mark left on the Turk bullet, so the Remington bullet design isn't what's keeping that round from chambering. The original S modification (GEW88S) consisted of merely reaming out the forward end of the chamber, the .311 barrel was retained. The later 88/05 mod included the addition of the 98 stripper clip guides.
Although the S mod 88's were widely used with .323 military ammo right through WWII, there's still plenty of warning about the use of the higher pressure European spec ammo. To be certain, I'd avoid the high pressure WWII Turk stuff if you come across it. That stuff exceeds 3,000fps out of my Turk M38's. On the other hand Remington and Winchester's domestic soft point 8mm ammo has generally been considered to be considerably downloaded from the European spec.

[ldpfeifer]

Just got home and read the last 2 replies. I will pull the bolt and use an engine bore scope and light to see if there is something in there blocking the chamber.

[randy langford]

Let us know what you find Factory Winchester and Remington ammo should chamber and is considered safe in these 88 rifles. Privi-Partizan is loaded to the hotter European standard and as has been said Turks like theirs super hot!

[kcw]

Let us know what you find Factory Winchester and Remington ammo should chamber and is considered safe in these 88 rifles. Privi-Partizan is loaded to the hotter European standard and as has been said Turks like theirs super hot!

My understanding is that that the Remington & Winchester 8x57 products are downloaded specifically in anticipation of circumstances such as this.

[ldpfeifer]

Is there a way to insert a picture? I used a bore scope and took a picture with my iphone. The bore looks OK. When magnified with the cylinder bore scope, you could see a lot of scratches that I didn't even know was there. It appears the bore is good but, it has a stop or shoulder area the makes a dramatic transition. I tried to insert the 8mm Remington Mauser rounds. They will go to the shoulder. I did find an old empty case, AK47 I think, 7.62 by 37....it will only chamber about half way and leaves a definite mark on the case about half way. Something is way out of wack here. I know the gun is a WW2 German war prize sent home from Germany, but now I am wondering if it could be chambered for Argentina?? The gun is Steyr and 1891 with the "S". This gun was packed with grease until February of this year. It sat in our old farm house since I was a kid.
So now is there a way to make a casting of the chamber area? I was thinking some paraffin wax. I am not sure I will ever be able to find a round for this thing.....then again, maybe I should leave it alone as someone is trying to tell me something.......

[ldpfeifer]

It worked...the pictures I mean......Lyle

[kcw]

It worked...the pictures I mean......Lyle

Steyr? Are you certain that you don't have an Austrian "straight pull" Model 95? Those rebarrled to 8x56R between the wars were stamped with an "S" on the receiver, approx. 12mm tall. The German police made extensive use of those rifles during WWII. How about a pic of the gun? "S", and the Hungarian "H" stamped rifles, should not be used with the original 8x60R ammo. Outfits such as Sportsman's Guide were selling large quantities of original 1938, German stamped ammo about ten years ago. You should be able to find it at gunshows Your 3rd chamber pic seems to show the less pronounced shoulder of the Austrian round, as compared to that of the 8x57.

[kcw]

Well obviously your 1891 made gun can't be a Model 95! If it is in fact Austrian, it's more likely it's the Model 1888-90 (Repetier Gewehr M88-90); which was the improved, smokeless proofed version of the original black powder Model 1888 originally chambered in 8x50. At this point you might want to obtain some "Cerro-Safe" material an do a chamber cast. Cerro-Safe can be obtained from supply houses such as Brownell's, et al. Following the directions, you melt it down on your stove top and pour it into the chamber to make a cast. It can be reused. The thing of it is, the Austrian "straight pulls" started out in 8x50, as the army changed to 8x56R (round nosed), and then to 8x56R (pointed) many older rifles were modified (which I believe is what the "S" stamp on yours signifies). But wait! Then we have counties such as Greece taking the M88-90's making carbines out of them in 7.92mm! If your do indeed have the Austrian rifle, my gut hunch is that it's been rebarreled to 8x56R-S, but I just don't know enough about them to be certain. That's were a Cerro-Safe cast comes.

[kcw]

As to your concern about the "abrupt stop" in the chamber neck, a good, sharp finish reamer will make such a edge. But something concerns me about pics #1 & #2. Am I seeing another, faint "circle" just ahead the edge you're speaking of in those two pics? The Germans did make some steel cased 8x57. If your gun is in fact an "S" 1888 Commission rifle, is that faint circle actually the forward edge of the chamber, and that far more pronounced rearward edge actually the rear end of a broken steel case neck? It would be odd for a case to be broken so smoothly, but if there were a defect (ie caused by a forming die) it might break off that way. This is where a Cerro Safe Cast would help.

[kcw]

However, my understanding of the 1888 Commission's "S" mod was that the forward end of the chamber was taper reamed so as to allow the .323 bullet to "gently" swag down into to the .318 barrel. I would think that a taper wouldn't leave an abrupt forward chamber edge; which brings me back to the Austrian rifle.

[ldpfeifer]

Here are some pictures of the gun. The date is 1890, I think I put 1891 in another post and you can see the "S" but under the "S" is also a CE. The serial number is 1540 with a letter "P" under the serial number, except the bolt is marked 3XXX. I do not have it in front of me. The last 7 inches of the stock has been sawed off, but there is a wood block in the receiver that has made this a "Barney Fife" gun, a single shot that is easily removed, this missing stock?. No other mods have been done to it other than the deflector on the end of the bolt. I will upload some more as I can only upload 5 at a time for pictures. Thanks for the help guys....Lyle

[ldpfeifer]

More pictures.....Lyle

[ldpfeifer]

Looking at the chamber with the bore scope, we thought the sharp transition in the barrel was a lining, but it goes all the way to the end and is solid, but it is just that, a sharp stop mark. The shoulder is not very pronounced as can be seen in the pictures, and the marks on the bayonet lug suggest this gun belonged to a reserve unit. I am not sure where my uncle picked it up. He was in a mechanized unit that came along after the battles and would either get stuff running again or destroy it so it could not be used. The only thing he ever talked much about was the "Hitler" style staff car they acquired and drove for some time before they came home. Must of belonged to someone important, they just came across it with a big hole blown in the back. Patched it up enough to drive it he said. I only wish I would have ask him about this gun. I know he sent home K98's but this is the odd ball. Imagine if this thing could talk, all that it has seen.......Thanks again for any and all help. Lyle

[ldpfeifer]

I took a piece of lead and tapped it into the end of the barrel. It measured .311 to .313. I also used a ball gauge, about 4 inches in, with the same results. I measure the 8mm Remington rounds and they are .321 if memory served me right.

[kcw]

Definitely an 1888 Commission rifle. I think it's likely that the stock was cut off for "duffle bag" purposes, with the idea that it would be reattached once getting back home. On 98K's the cut was commonly done under the rear band. Lyle, have you tried chambering an unloaded case? Disregarding the S stamp, I would think that if you lightly lube the neck of a 8x57 case with no bullet in it, you should , with some force, be able move the bolt forward enough to chamber the casing even in a VERY tight, unmodified chamber ( a piece of brass that had a .323 bullet in it will be a bit larger diameter neck than one with a .318 bullet, but it should swag down if there's no obstruction in the neck, you may wish to chamfer the outer edge of the case mouth). If you can't get that to happen I would have to assume that there's something stuck in either the chamber neck or chamber itself. I just spoke with a friend who has an unmodified 88 carbine. He says that he can't fully chamber .323 rounds, but they do go almost to the point where the bolt starts to turn down on the 318 ammo..

[kcw]

I've never tried paraffin (I think I read somewhere that paraffin shrinks when cooled), but you might be able to make a "plug" of the chamber neck area. If that is a broken shell neck in there the ID should be somewhere around .330 (according to a fired case I have), maybe a couple thousands larger considering that it's still expanded.

[ldpfeifer]

I ordered the casting material today. When I tried the 7.62x39 casing, it went in about an inch and would not go further. You can see a ring around about half of it about 1 inch down where it stopped and I tried to force it with a little more pressure. The 8mm will go right up to the shoulder and no further. I got a .303 Savage round in about half way, the bullet being .308. I would think if a casing is stuck in there, I would be able to see it or someone has pulled it clean and has worked it with some type of tool to smooth it out. Again the shoulder is not very distinct but there. The bore scope would only go so far and not into the barrel and the head of the scope is larger than the bore of the gun. I used a Milwaukee Digital inspection camera to take the pictures, but a more expensive bore scope to look in the chamber area.
There is a notch just outside the chamber on the right side as you look down the barrel, it is cut right up next to the chamber but has the thinnest edge on it. I was thinking this is odd and how could they leave such an edge when this was built. Not sure if you have an 88, but could this be part of a spent cartridge that may be stuck? I really don't see a definitive ring all the way around and hate to start prying on that thin ring as I do believe the notch has to do with the bolt locking. It still has some 60 plus year old grease in the chamber area. I attached another picture.(Picture is upside down.)
Lyle

[kcw]

I ordered the casting material today. When I tried the 7.62x39 casing, it went in about an inch and would not go further. You can see a ring around about half of it about 1 inch down where it stopped and I tried to force it with a little more pressure. The 8mm will go right up to the shoulder and no further. I got a .303 Savage round in about half way, the bullet being .308. I would think if a casing is stuck in there, I would be able to see it or someone has pulled it clean and has worked it with some type of tool to smooth it out. Again the shoulder is not very distinct but there. The bore scope would only go so far and not into the barrel and the head of the scope is larger than the bore of the gun. I used a Milwaukee Digital inspection camera to take the pictures, but a more expensive bore scope to look in the chamber area.
There is a notch just outside the chamber on the right side as you look down the barrel, it is cut right up next to the chamber but has the thinnest edge on it. I was thinking this is odd and how could they leave such an edge when this was built. Not sure if you have an 88, but could this be part of a spent cartridge that may be stuck? I really don't see a definitive ring all the way around and hate to start prying on that thin ring as I do believe the notch has to do with the bolt locking. It still has some 60 plus year old grease in the chamber area. I attached another picture.(Picture is upside down.)
Lyle

If I'm reading you correctly, this pic is looking at the butt end of the barrel at the chamber end? You're telling me that if you insert an 8x57 factory round into there, it only goes in until it contacts the shoulder ? Assuming that's the situation, I cut off the unsupported end of a spent Turk case. You can tell which portion was inside the chamber and that which was hanging out against the bolt face at firing by the markings left on the case caused by firing. Basically I'm left with the forward end of the case, the length of which should be roughly flush with the rear end of the barrel. If I insert an 8mm factory round into that open end it will only go as far as the forward end of the shoulder. A 7.62x39 will go in far enough to scribe the lower end of the shoulder. Of course the Turk case is made of BRASS and likely thicker than a steel one at that point, therefore it wouldn't surprise me if your test casings went in a bit deeper than mine. Does "notch" possibly = a crack in a steel case. The most common failure on a rimless case is right at the end of the barrel. If that is indeed a broken shell in there, I'm surprised that somebody didn't remove it with a broken shell extractor. On the other, if that rifle had been handed out to something such as the "Hitler Youth" corp or the "Volkstrum" (people's Army) in the last days of the war, they may very well have not been supplied with a remover. And of course if the gun no longer worked, there then came an opportune and justified moment to throw it down and either run like hell or surrender before the guy in the Sherman tank ran you over! (We have my mother's cousin's last letter he ever sent home. He mentions going through German villages in the Ruhr while sitting on top of a U.S. tank. As they went past old men holding their personal rifles and shotguns in a show of defiance against the allied troops, he and his fellows pointed their own weapons at them while shouting "NIEN, NIEN, NIEN!". If anyone did fire it was usually a 14 year old, those older guys, many of them vets of WWI and before, knew when to "fold'em"). Anyway, if that is indeed a broken case, all you may need is a extractor. I think Midway has them for the 8x57 for around $13. You might want soak the area down in penetrating oil before you use the remover. Maybe jam a piece of "cork" or something in the chamber and fill it up with oil with the barrel pointed down. I've also removed stuck cases with a machinist's "backout" device. Run an appropriately sized backout into the case and then pop it, and the broken case with it, out with a piece of round stock (ie. "all thread") from the muzzle end.

[ldpfeifer]

I pulled the gun down and here are the markings on the barrel. I could not believe how clean the metal was under the heat shroud! It says:

7.7m/m
46
3.30
679

About 3/4 inch above that is the initials: E.V.N. followed by either number 0 or letter O.
Have you ever removed the barrel completely? It looks to thread in.
Lyle

[kcw]

7.7mm comes out about a .303 bore. Add a .005 grove on either side and you have a .318 barrel. The shield wasn't something normally removed in the field for cleaning. A result of that is that it's not uncommon to find a good deal of rust under there due to water leaking in and not being attended too.

[Rock]

Here are some pictures of the gun. The date is 1890, I think I put 1891 in another post and you can see the "S" but under the "S" is also a CE. The serial number is 1540 with a letter "P" under the serial number, except the bolt is marked 3XXX.


http://www.jouster.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=21873&d=1369929362



Looks like a Gew98 Mauser Lange Vizier rear sight . Never saw one of those on a Gew88 before....


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/adamsutherland/Mauser%20G98%20Somme%20Capture/G986BoltReceiverRearsightfromrightr.jpg

[randy langford]

More and more it is looking like a broken shell in the chamber.

[ldpfeifer]

Looking at this picture, from the chamber forward. I have a notch on the right side of the chamber(the picture is upside down) and the rest of the area is raised like a rimmed cartridge. The 8mm is not rimmed. If anyone has a 88, could you look and see if yours is flush all the way across or is it raised around the chamber hole like this one. The measurements all quite small compared to the outside measurements of my Remington 8mm.
Could this be a broken rimmed cartridge, as in some one use the wrong ammo?
Again, thanks in advance for the help.
Lyle

[kcw]

Looking at this picture, from the chamber forward. I have a notch on the right side of the chamber(the picture is upside down) and the rest of the area is raised like a rimmed cartridge. The 8mm is not rimmed. If anyone has a 88, could you look and see if yours is flush all the way across or is it raised around the chamber hole like this one. The measurements all quite small compared to the outside measurements of my Remington 8mm.
Could this be a broken rimmed cartridge, as in some one use the wrong ammo?
Again, thanks in advance for the help.
Lyle

I'm thinking that's just the extractor "cutout"; accommodates the front end of the extractor. On the subject of the Lange Vizer rear sight being on that rifle, I wonder if that gun isn't an example ersatz Volkssturmgewehr. There were the half dozen or so "official" Volksstrumgewehr designs which are well documented, but I wonder if some enterprising armorer didn't make use of available surplus WWI era "roller coaster" sights to get some 88 Commission rifles; which were stacked up in a repair depot, back in the fight toward the end of the war.

[kcw]

BTW Lyle, your grandfather was probably with an equipment reclamation battalion or company. There were a number of specialties throughout the military in the areas of reclamation. Everything, both ours and the enemy's too, had to be cleaned up eventually, but of course there were priorities such as salvaging equipment that could be quickly righted for reuse (ie trucks). My father talked about mating the useable front and rear ends of damaged 2.5 ton trucks that they found abandoned, and then using them for his own battalion's purposes.

[ldpfeifer]

I have to head back to work for a few days. The casting material should be here when I get back and will attempt to see if I can free the casing from the barrel. Will post if I am successful and pictures also, or order the extractor next. Thanks again everyone.
Lyle

[kcw]

Lyle, To give you a point of reference to use with your casting, I measured the diameter of the back end of a Turk 98 Mauser chamber; comparable I think to the point indicated in your pic @ post #27. It looks like it should measure in the area of . 475" or so (I had some trouble getting the gauge in there). I'm guessing that a casting will show a measurement at that point your gun to be in the .375"-.400" area.

[kcw]

Beside the use of an "EZ Out" as previously mentioned, you can also make use of an appropriately sized machinist's tap. Screw it in enough to get a good bite (but not overly tight) on the inside of the broken casing, and pop it and the broken casing out with a rod from the muzzle.

[ldpfeifer]

I measured the 8mm Remington Mauser round at .467 to .427 at the shoulder. I used a tap, not sure of the size as it is not front of me, about .433 I believe. I only went in about 1/2 inch and tried to use a rod to push it out with no help. I screwed in a bolt and use a brass drift on the head lightly tapping with no results, mainly the angle in the chamber area. I need to get a rod of the proper size and try it from the barrel end to see if it will move. It has been soaking with PB max for 2 days. I will try again if I get time before I leave for work.
Lyle

[kcw]

I measured the 8mm Remington Mauser round at .467 to .427 at the shoulder. I used a tap, not sure of the size as it is not front of me, about .433 I believe. I only went in about 1/2 inch and tried to use a rod to push it out with no help. I screwed in a bolt and use a brass drift on the head lightly tapping with no results, mainly the angle in the chamber area. I need to get a rod of the proper size and try it from the barrel end to see if it will move. It has been soaking with PB max for 2 days. I will try again if I get time before I leave for work.
Lyle

I just did a bit of experimenting out in the garage with that Turk casing I mentioned before. My choice for a tap size reads "1/8 pipe" (seems well heavier than 1/8 to me, more like 3/8, but that's what it's stamped). You're dealing with a bore of not much more than .300". You may have to settle for a piece of .250 rod from the hardware store. I'd wrap it in electrical tape.

[kcw]

You previously mentioned the possibility of some sort of an "insert"? There is an 8mm/32cal rook round. I've never seen one, but all the rook style rounds I have seen are rimmed with straight or narrowly tapered cases. I'd think such a modification to an 1888 (never heard of such a thing) would require not only an insert, but also work on the bolt face and extractor. Moreover, I'd think that somebody going to all that trouble would have stamped the gun accordingly;, in fact the strict German proof laws through the end of WWII would have required reproofing with appropriate stamps being placed by the proofhouse. Those would then be civilian proof marks (not military) and would typically be on the underside of the barrel.

[kcw]

There is the 8.15x46mm which was very popular in Europe as a target round. Apparently you can refashion 30-30 cases to make the brass. Rifles should be stamped accordingly, especially if they were converted in some fashion from other calibers.

[kcw]

A modified German gun should have the civilian Crown/R stamp (reproof of modified or repaired arm) and the Crown/N stamp (Nitro proofed)

[kcw]

You may want to hold up and do your casting before doing anything else Lyle! I'm wondering if that 7.7mm-46-3.30-679 marking isn't a somewhat screwed up commercial cartridge designation. From what I've found the 8.15x46 round generally has a .321 (7.9mm) bullet, but I'm wondering if whomever made that stamp wanted people to know that the gun still had the .318 barrel? 7.9mm/46 might make sense, March, 1930, 679th gun proofed in that proof house that month. But where are the required German commercial "crown" proof stamps that should be on the barrel?

[Calif Steve]

The rear sight tell me somebody (non-military) has spent money on this rifle. Very likely you have a non-standard chamber. Interesting stuff, for sure.

[ldpfeifer]

I did try the 1/4 rod on a bolt that was threaded into the casing, or so I hope it is a casing, and tapped on it. There is a rough feel to the bottom of the chamber area. A broken cartridge?? I have had PB blaster sitting in this for 2 days. Everything is shiny clean but I notice as I drained the last of the PB out, some rust in the chamber area that was not there before. My understanding is they used Berdan(SP) primers which are corrosive if left unclean for long. I am not seeing any brass from the casing so I am now wondering would this be a steel casing, if it is a casing, and the rust from the corrosive nature of the primer coming from between the two metals? There are German crowns are on areas of the gun. It is stamped with the "S" marking, but under that is a CE. The chamber area and the heat shield cover are the same serial number and have the crown. I also saw another forum some information on the front sling ring that is stamped with numbers from the reserve unit this belonged to. I am going to try and take it to an old retired gun smith when I get back from my trip to see if he has any ideas too. Mean time, it is soaking with PB Blaster for the next 4 days. Keeping my fingers crossed......again, thanks for all the ideas and help.
Lyle

[kcw]

Lyle, I'm starting to think that your rifle may have been surplused off after WWI and converted into a 8.15x46 target rifle, possibly by drilling out the 8x57 chamber and installing a 8.15x46 insert; affixed in place by one of the several methods(pressing, pinning, ect.) employed to insured that the insert stays put. If all they did was to install an insert, ALL of the original military markings would remain but there would also be an added set of commercial markings (commercial proof marks are different than military marks). German proof marks are meant to tell a story about what's been done to the gun. Your PB blaster may be leeching out rust that's formed between an insert and the original chamber wall. I'm curious as to why that paper has been jammed into the magazine well. Has the GI follower system been disabled or possibly even removed, and the paper compacted into the well to keep brass from falling in there? Such a "modification" would make complete sense if the rifle is converted to a single shot target rifle. Also the substitution of the old "roller coaster" rear sight, which I believe is more adjustable than the standard 88 sight, might be a logical addition on a civilian target gun. I would suggest that you cease attempts to remove anything until you can figure what going on for certain. If the gun has been converted, I'd hate to see you ruin the chamber and render the gun useless!

[Calif Steve]

kcw has nailed it. Be very careful about this chamber. Also, you might a post a picture or two on Milsurps.com, in the Mauser section . They have several excellent Germans, who know their Mausers very well, they can help. Good luck.

[RCS]

I use to load 8,15x46R or some call it 7,7x46R for old German single shot rifles, there are variations in the bore diameters, most that I loaded for use .311 dia bullets.

I used both Remington and Winchester 30-30 brass and RCBS dies, I had to reduce the rim diameter on the 30-30 brass and reduce the length too.

One thing I noticed is that the 8.15x46R rim will not fit my G33/40 bolt face, it would appear that both the extractor and diameter of the bolt face would have to be
altered to fit the 8.15x46R case head, you might check your bolt ?

[ldpfeifer]

Some of the pictures of the cast chamber. I also removed the barrel with very little trouble.
Some measurements of the casting -VS- 8mm cartridge....
BASE Cast .421 8mm .465
Shoulder before angle Cast .348 8mm .426
Length of cartridge Cast 1.822 8mm 1.852
Middle picture is bottom 30-30, casting, and AK round. Any more ideas on this thing????
Lyle

[kcw]

If you do a search for "8.15x46r, armslist.com" you'll find external dimensions for a factory loaded round.

[RCS]

During the post WW1 period some Mauser 98's were converted to use the 8,15x46Rmm cartridge, I have seen some and there is not any reason that a Model 88 could not be converted (that would explain the rear sight).

The bolt action conversions to 8.15x46Rmm used a jacketed bullet rather than the old lead bullets for the single shots. Photos show post WW2 late cartridges for the 8.15x46Rmm

[ldpfeifer]

Here is the latest casting of the chamber. I had a hard time as if I went to deep, it would not come out. I put a mark buy what appears to be the top of the casting as the rifling starts just about the ring on the casting, you can see the start of it if you look close. I took a file to the breach area of the barrel. There is a definite ring around it as can be seen in the pictures, but the material in there is steel. I am trying to contact a gun smith. Any ideas now???
Lyle

[ldpfeifer]

it would appear that both the extractor and diameter of the bolt face would have to be
altered to fit the 8.15x46R case head, you might check your bolt ?

So I tool the bolt and the Remington 8mm fit like a glove. But I was told by a local guy at a gun shop the guns were sort of stacked up in a pile and the bolts were in another pile. When the US GI's came by, they would grab a gun and a bolt. It may explain a lot here. My uncle got the one gun that would not chamber 8mm but got a bolt for that. I just barely drug a file across the chamber face. In the pictures you can clearly see what looks like a ring, but I can not feel anything like a stuck cartridge with a piece of wire with a hook on it. Does anyone know, the 32-40 and the 8.15x46R the same case or die? I am trying to decide what to do next. I am trying to get in touch with an old gun smith a local gentleman recommended. Again thanks to all.
Lyle

[kcw]

Obviously your chamber cast does not include the rim of the round as that would be sandwiched between the end of the barrel and the bolt face. If it's the 8.15x46r round (aka 7.7x46) , which I suspect it is, the diameter just in front of the rim (or in this case the end of your casting) will measure around .4232". The distance from where the front of the rim would be (aka: the end of your casting) to the shoulder is around 1.1811"; the diameter at that point around .3898". The diameter of the neck around .3476".
Understand that the European specs for this round where not very "tight", chamber reamers commonly differed by a couple of thousandth's. For example one drawing I saw gave the diameter figure just ahead of the rim @ .4208".

[kcw]

I should have mentioned that the OAL for a 8.15x46r round, inclusive of the .059" rim, is 1.831" +or-. People will make suitable brass by trimming the rim of a 30-30 down to .486" and then trimming the OAL to 1.831. Then run the brass into a 8.15x46 sizer die. European bolt guns typically had their bolts serial numbered to the serial number of the rifle. If the those numbers match on your rifle, you have the correct bolt for it. Although a standard 8x57 round snaps into the bolt head, that doesn't mean that the rim of a 8.15x46r won't snap in.

[ldpfeifer]

Re-slugged the bore and also did a cast 3/4 of an inch down the barrel, .316.
My chamber casting measurements are: Base .424. Neck is .3495. Length is the only thing I could not nail, but I came up with 1.820 and that may be a little on the long side. It is looking like the 8.15x46R round. I am still going to a gunsmith. If he give the OK, I will start acquiring dies, and bullets as I have some spent 30-30 cases. If not, it will be a wall hanger with a story.
Thanks to all.
Lyle

[ldpfeifer]

With everyone's help, I bought some 8.15x46R dies, cut down some 30-30 cases and bought some over-sized lead 30-30 bullets. I strapped this gun to a stool and rigged up a trigger pull from phone line. Fired it 4 times, cut it loose and put one in the target on the first shot. For a gun that has been silent for 60 years plus, what a day!
Now I am trying to fix the sights. These look the same as the Gewehr 98, but as can be seen in the pictures, they have been cut down to fit. The back "V" part is wind-age adjustable with a screw that was frozen and now snapped off. I am in the process of trying to remove it, but at a loss as the G-98 never had wind-age adjustments.
Any more help would be appreciated.
Lyle

[leecork]

I do not have any reference books available down here in Florida, but I want to contribute another possibility. Is it possible that this gun would use the 7.65 X 53 cartridges commonly used in Argentine Mausers of the same time frame ? Of course, the Argentine rifles used .311 bullets,