More Carbine markings

[Barryeye]

I have posted here before about my one and only carbine but as I am about to clean it I thought I’d take a few pictures. I have always been aware that it is a probably a Mixmaster but I see that as being more authentic then a retro collection of matching parts. However I have taken pictures this time of the stampings in the hope that the wise men of this forum can tell me more about my carbine.
To recap it is a late Inland serial number 7396787. Barrel is Inland dated May 1945. The receiver was stamped M2 but the 2 has been over stamped with a 1. It is in a pot belly M2 stock with the M.R.cartouche and the cross cannons. There is the number 10 stamped in the sling well.
Barry

[Tuna]

Barry, What you have listed is pretty much correct for your serial number except for the barrel band and the safety. The band is a late war post war replacement and not one made for Inland as is the safety. Most likely changed during it's passing through Mt. Rainier Ordnance Depot. The stock is marked in the sling well IO and not 10 as it was made for Inland. Should be a real good shooting carbine for you.

[bug]

Barryeye,

You had me going there for a minute untill I saw that you were from NZ. Could you post a pic of the 1 over 2 stamp? I've never seen that treatment in person. I'd expect a gun made that late would have been M2 stamped. Any idea when and by whom it was overstamped? Thanks.

Bob D

[Barryeye]

Many thanks Tuna. So I can take it that it is all Inland apart from the saftey and barrel band? It is a nice shooter.

Pictures as requested Bug. I have no idea who did the overstamp. I do know a few carbines made their way to NZ via Vietnam.

[ncblksmth1]

You have a late war M2/1 Carbine. Meaning the reciever was made as a M2 (full automatic) reciever and when the need was filled it was overstamped with the 1 to make it back to an M1 carbine. However in the eyes of the law its still Automatic and as such is dangerous to own. However the rest of the gun is pretty much correct for a late war or korean war m1/2 carbine. Inside there should be several cutouts on the trigger guard that will tell you if it ever was full auto. Gorgeous. I love the pottbelly stock.

[Tuna]

I would hazard a guess that your receiver was made and stamped about May 1945 as all of Inlands carbine production for April and May 1945 was M2 production. By June Inland was again making M1 carbines and used that M2 stamped receiver to make an M1. Your stock most likely is original to your carbine as it was all that was being used by that late in the war.

[Barryeye]

I so want to reply to the above with pictures but some reason I am unable to drag my uploaded pictures into the space for posting? Puzzled but I am working on it. I am not ignoring you :-).
Barry

[Johnny in Texas]

Barry it appears to have an M2 hammer are there some spacers to fill the gap between the hammer and the trigger housing. Normally the disconnector block sits in that space and is part of the fire selector mechanism.

[jim c 351]

I would hazard a guess that your receiver was made and stamped about May 1945 as all of Inlands carbine production for April and May 1945 was M2 production. By June Inland was again making M1 carbines and used that M2 stamped receiver to make an M1. Your stock most likely is original to your carbine as it was all that was being used by that late in the war.
Tuna,
Never heard this story before. If true would that mean that such a M1 overstamp left Inland as an M1 and would therefore not fall into the once a MG always a MG.,ATF classification.
Where can this be documented.
Jim C

[Tuna]

Sorry Jim but yes it would fall into the once a machinegun always a machinegun here in the US. But this one is over stamped with the 1 over the 2 and Barry is in New Zealand where they are a bit more logical about stampings on receiver. But here anytime a receiver is stamped with a 2 it will always be a machinegun no matter what is stamped on top of the 2 even if done at the factory.

[Barryeye]

Hi. This is the post and pictures I was unable to send a few days ago.
Barry
Pictures of the right hand side of receiver as requested. I have no idea what I am looking for or if these photos cover it. I guess what I’d like to know is was my carbine ever a M2 or were some unused M2 parts pressed into service to make a batch of M1s? Is my carbine an M2 with selective fire parts removed to make it an M1? I do appreciate that in the U.S. this carbine would be classed as a machine gun but in New Zealand it is not. Tuna and Incblksmth1 thank you for your input. The helpfulness and knowledge I find on this site never fails to amaze me.

[Tuna]

It looks pretty much all M1 parts in your carbine. It was born an M2 and somewhere along the line it became an M1.

[jim c 351]

Sorry Jim but yes it would fall into the once a machinegun always a machinegun here in the US. But this one is over stamped with the 1 over the 2 and Barry is in New Zealand where they are a bit more logical about stampings on receiver. But here anytime a receiver is stamped with a 2 it will always be a machinegun no matter what is stamped on top of the 2 even if done at the factory.

Tuna,
I know about M2's and I know about New Zealand.
What I don't know is where you came up with the story about Inland going back to making M1 carbines in June of 1945. Seems strange considering the coming invasion of Japan.
The ATF hangs its hat on the M2 issue because the gun was manufactured as a MG. But what about an M2 that was never a MG??
Years ago the Carbine Club was going to petition the ATF to exempt M2 marked guns with XD, XE & XF serial numbers. I dropped out of the club in the early 1980's , so I don't know if anything was accomplished.
Until now I'd never heard of a M1 over stamp.
Jim C

[Tuna]

In April and May 1945, Inlands full production were M2 carbines and they made 200,000 of them. In June they once again started M1 production as that is what their contracts called for. As Barry's carbine is all M1 carbine and there are no rebuild stamps the odds are it was done at Inland. But it also could have been done at the company level on up but the Parkerizing appears to be original and the 1 stamped over the 2 is covered. As far as I know ATF has not changed anything for any carbine if it's stamped M2. They seem to be very stubborn about this.

[bug]

That is an interesting piece of history. I've never seen such an overstamp or heard of the June 45 M1 production before. Thanks for the knowledge. Oh and by the way, it sure highlights the stupidity of the M1/M2 position held by ATF.

Bob D

[Johnny in Texas]

Tuna are you sure that is an Inland 1? My hand stamped Inland 1 does not look like that one. Barry's carbine appears to have an M2 Hammer in it.

[Tuna]

It could be or it may not be. It could have been done anywhere other then one of the armories. In looking real close at the pictures it does appear under magnification that it may have been blasted and reparkerized. The 2 looks faint and the 1 quite sharp. Then again it could be just the way the photos are under magnification. As to the hammer. I am pretty sure it's a type 3 hammer and that it's the photos that make it appear to be an M2. If it were an M2 hammer without a spacer it would cause problems for Barry when he shoots it.
But the one thing that is puzzling no matter what is why they would stamp it as an M1 if it had been an issued M2 to start with. Other then coming out of Inland as an over stamp it doesn't really make any sense.

[Barryeye]

Well gentlemen. I confess that I am pleased that my carbine has a small mystery attached that could make it that little bit unique in the large world of carbines. I’ve attached a few more pictures that may help. Tuna I can’t see a spacer but I am not too sure what I am looking for.
The” 1” stamp is a larger font than that of all the other stampings.
The “2” stamp is a lot clearer than my photography can do justice.
It looks clear that the “1” was stamped prior to being parkerized.
The overall condition of the carbine including the bore is very good. I suspect that since or prior to its rebuild at Mount Reiner (spell) it has seen very little or no action at all.
I’ve owned it for about 16 years and have put a thousand rounds plus through it. It has never missed a beat.
Barry

[Tuna]

Since it has gone through a rebuild which I was not aware of, that would seem to be the place that it would have been stamped with the one. But it is still a puzzle as to why it was over stamped in the first place.

[chucklamb]

Hey guys, should the letters in the sling well be read as IO for Inland by Overton, or OI Overton for Inland? Just curious, for the past 20years. :]

[Tuna]

OI, Overton for Inland.

[chucklamb]

Many thanx Tuna.

Chuck