M1903 cartridge belt, Russell Mfg, early?

[Garandy]

Look pre 1908? Early manufacture? 1904 patent date on metal, not MILLS..unmarked Russell?
http://i313.photobucket.com/albums/ll373/AndrewG1957/BELT%209%20POCKET%20CAV/1980-01-01000155_zps8e0f97a9.jpg
http://i313.photobucket.com/albums/ll373/AndrewG1957/BELT%209%20POCKET%20CAV/1980-01-01000142_zps4712ad92.jpg
http://i313.photobucket.com/albums/ll373/AndrewG1957/BELT%209%20POCKET%20CAV/1980-01-01000132_zps3deb39cb.jpg
http://i313.photobucket.com/albums/ll373/AndrewG1957/BELT%209%20POCKET%20CAV/1980-01-01000118_zpsd2d6aef5.jpghttp://i313.photobucket.com/albums/ll373/AndrewG1957/BELT%209%20POCKET%20CAV/1980-01-01000105_zps7eaa5c1b.jpg
http://i313.photobucket.com/albums/ll373/AndrewG1957/BELT%209%20POCKET%20CAV/1980-01-01000046_zpse8317313.jpg
http://i313.photobucket.com/albums/ll373/AndrewG1957/BELT%209%20POCKET%20CAV/1980-01-01000036_zps932699ec.jpg
http://i313.photobucket.com/albums/ll373/AndrewG1957/BELT%209%20POCKET%20CAV/1980-01-01000027_zps762bb5cf.jpg

[Garandy]

9 pockets, no dividing snap in packets,

[Rick the Librarian]

The "eagle" snaps date it to well before WWI.

[amber]

If someone has a copy of Steve Dorsey's book on web belts, it should likely show up in there. Brophy's Springfield book shows several belts on pages 379 to 385. I am thinking that this belt was made by Russell Long. Not a Mills product. I can make out a patent date of Jan. 29 '01 and more dates that are not readable. Of course, it's an Eagle Snap, Puckered Pocked, 9 Pocket Belt. Nice item.

[Rick the Librarian]

I have a copy of Dorsey and this appears to be a Model 1903. Dorsey says that only Mills made the initial cartridge belts, but, starting in 1907, Russell started to manufacture them.

[RCK]

This is only a log in check, no reply to this thread.

[Doug Douglass]

If there are any sewn seams it is a Russell. General Mills invented and patented a weaving machine that wove a caetridge belt in one piece without any sewn seams. It is not a model 1903 because it has puckered pockets for the pointed 1906 bullets but the narrow clasp is of a 1903 type. It appears to be a 1907 Russell.

[dhaynes]

What you appear to have is a 1st issue Mills 9 pocket ammo belt. The Mills had no name marking and showed pattern dates of 1901, 1903 and 1904. It is more readily identified by the tapered belt ends shown in your pictures. The later models had the squared ends as did all the Russell belts. I feel confident what you have is the 1st issue Mills.

[rayg]

What you appear to have is a 1st issue Mills 9 pocket ammo belt. The Mills had no name marking and showed pattern dates of 1901, 1903 and 1904. It is more readily identified by the tapered belt ends shown in your pictures. The later models had the squared ends as did all the Russell belts. I feel confident what you have is the 1st issue Mills.

22042 Ray

[Doug Douglass]

First issue rimless eagle snaped Mills were for the 1903-03 round nose bullets and did not have puckered pockets.

[rayg]

You're right I missed the puckered pockets, Ray

[BobDepp]

I have a similar cartridge belt except with Marine Corps snaps. An ol'-timer!......

[Derrick R.]

Would really love to see pictures of the marine belt
Derrick

[Johnny P]

Dorsey is not exactly clear as to which is which. He calls the belt with the narrow belt tips the 1st Issue 1903. The top belt has the narrow belt tips, but the puckered bottoms. The lower belt has the wide belt tips and the reinforced bottoms. He goes on to explain that the 1st and 2nd Issue Mills had the puckered pocket bottoms while Russell did not, and these "sufficed" until the adoption of the pointed bullet in 1906.

The upper belt has the 1901 patent date with two March 1904 patent dates.

http://i44.tinypic.com/mx1xlg.jpg

[Rawhide]

My Mounted M1903 cartridge belt has the wide belt tips, puckered bottoms, and the 1901 patent date with two March 1904 patent dates.
I assumed that it was a Mills First Issue. Would Dorsey disagree?

[Johnny P]

I think he would. According to him, the difference in the 1st Issue and 2nd Issue Mills is the width of the belt tips.

[Rawhide]

Thanks Johnny. I thought that the reinforced bottoms indicted 2nd issue.

[Johnny P]

The reinforced pockets were added in 1907, and I guess that is what the 1907 patent dates cover.

http://i42.tinypic.com/2ro41ux.jpg

[Bill D]

Damn, you take nice pictures!

[Rawhide]

Beautiful examples! Thanks for the photos and information.