30-06 loose pockets and pierced primers

[PhillipM]

I loaded 60 LC cases with more than 10 loads and 60 once fired Remington with a load of 46.5 imr 4895 with a 155 gn bullet and WLR primers. The LC cases have some pierced primers on the radius of the primer and a loose pocket. Please explain why cases with loose pockets have primers that pierce at the radius.

[Litt'le Lee]

did you length size the old brass ??
and what did you shoot them in

[PhillipM]

I've been using the RCBS X-Die, trim once and forget it. This happened on the same shoot with an M1 and a 1903. Both have minimal headspace.

[High Plaines Doug r]

I'm guessing what you are seeing is gas leakage around the primer pocket from an eroded primer pocket. In my guns this results in an eroded breech face, primer pocket diameter.

[Tuna]

Ten loadings is about all your going to be getting and it's time to recycle those cases. I think Doug is right and leakage around the primer is what your seeing.

[madsenshooter]

I know, we hate to see them go, but they can only take so much.

[PhillipM]

Ten loadings is about all your going to be getting and it's time to recycle those cases. I think Doug is right and leakage around the primer is what your seeing.

The x die does stop cases from stretching thereby needing a trim, thereby leading to the thin spot above the case head. I knew life would be ended by a loose pocket or split neck, but I'm seeing actual pinholes in the primers, Winchester LR's. Some of the Korean brass I've loaded has had a little leakage around the pocket, but this is new. Yes is was a PITA to photograph this, lol!


http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5464/8975764883_42d90cafcb_c.jpg

[joem]

Try some CCI primers. They seem to be tougher and fit tighter in the pocket. That's why I switched to them.

[emmagee1917]

Check the very tip of your firing pins . The gas leakage might have eroded and roughened the tips , giving a sharp burr that's leading to the piercing .
Chris

[p246]

Its sounds like your an experienced reloader but just to cover the basics I assume you are getting a full seat on the primers...correct. Similar issue came up with friend who was a novice. In inspecting some of his reloads he hand about 1 in 10 with not fully seated primers. No offense if you've loaded for years but this reminded me of that so I mentioned it.

[C5M1]

what kind of primer tool you using Phil?


dennis

[PhillipM]

All primed on a 550. I have uniformed them a few loads ago. No problems with the Remington brass loaded the same way, same night. No doubt the cases need to be trashed, I'm just curious why this happened. I think 8 or so failed the same way.

[Parashooter]

What I see in the photo is not a pierced primer but rather annular primer leaks. Two strong possibilities for their origin are related to the GI primer crimp -

1. If the crimp was never removed, its remnants can function as annular burrs and scratch the sides of the primer cup as it is seated. Those scratches then provide a handy pathway for gas leaks. Switching to nickel-plated primers (like CCI or Federal) may help (nickel being harder than cartridge brass), as may a good primer pocket swaging tool - which should put a nice, smooth radius on the mouth of the pocket.

2. If the crimp was removed carelessly, especially with a hand-held reamer, resultant irregularities in the sides of the primer pocket can cause gas leaks. Cases are then best suited for scrap, although ball-swaging the pocket periphery, followed by regular pocket swaging, can sometimes correct the condition. Hardly worth the effort for 60 well-worn '06 cases that can easily be replaced at little cost - at least after the buying panic passes.

[C5M1]

I used to use brass till it failed in my early days of reloading. Had quite a bit of blow by, enough to badly pit a trw bolt face. But, never seen a primer blow like that. Odd to say the least. Always used Win primers with no problems.

Might notice loose primer pockets earlier if hand primed, just a better feel for primer fit/pocket stretch. Trash the brass after 2 less loadings than you got there, but, you probably got that already.


regards, dennis. ps, Hows the high power doing this year?

[PhillipM]

What I see in the photo is not a pierced primer but rather annular primer leaks. Two strong possibilities for their origin are related to the GI primer crimp -

1. If the crimp was never removed, its remnants can function as annular burrs and scratch the sides of the primer cup as it is seated. Those scratches then provide a handy pathway for gas leaks. Switching to nickel-plated primers (like CCI or Federal) may help (nickel being harder than cartridge brass), as may a good primer pocket swaging tool - which should put a nice, smooth radius on the mouth of the pocket.

2. If the crimp was removed carelessly, especially with a hand-held reamer, resultant irregularities in the sides of the primer pocket can cause gas leaks. Cases are then best suited for scrap, although ball-swaging the pocket periphery, followed by regular pocket swaging, can sometimes correct the condition. Hardly worth the effort for 60 well-worn '06 cases that can easily be replaced at little cost - at least after the buying panic passes.

It is a tiny pinhole in the primer radius, I have deprimed one to confirm this. I will dig them all out punch out the primers and try to take photos.

I can't recall if these cases were done with a hand reamer or not, and even if it were a "hand" reamer, it was probably installed in a drill. I bought a Herter's 3006 swage a while back and I used it on most of my previously reamed military brass as extra insurance to smooth seating. The last tool these primer pockets saw was a Lyman hand uniformer in a battery drill.

The whole story is I was loading for our state championship Garand and then Vintage bolt match, both 50 round matches with 5 and 5 sighters. When I brought out my cases to load, I realized my Korean was starting to have gas leaks as C5M1 described. I had a hundred or so twice fired Remington already trimmed and ready to go. The only other processed brass I had on hand was the LC69 with a lot of loads for practice.

My plan was to shoot the Remington for the Garand match, followed by the LC69 in the vintage match, but I grabbed the wrong box, LC69, for prone slow with the Garand and when I picked up my brass, realized primers were piercing. With regards to the shooter, the M1 handles gas well, the 1903 does not. I decided to shoot the rest of the garand match with the Remington, and the 03 match with as much Remington as I had. At least two of the LC69's pieced in rapid fire and I got a cloud of gas around my glasses. I won the Garand match and came in 2nd in vintage bolt, I'll never go to a serious match with well worn brass again, that's for sure.