Installing a front sight on old original Govt. Mdl. 1911

[duke133]

I have to install a front sight on an Old original Government Model 1911. The original is missing. The post on the sight sticks down into the barrel channel. I need to find out the best method of cutting the post down and then, how do I attach the sight permanently to the slide? A friend told me silver solder will not work. I do not want to mar the finish on the slide. Anyone been through this before?
Thanks.

[Scott Wilson]

The front sights were designed to be staked onto the slide. You will need a staking tool and the proper vise to do the job correctly. Once the sight is tightly staked you carefully grind off any excess metal. Try looking at YouTube, there are an amazing number of really good instructional videos there that are related to pistolsmithing.

[Richard H Brown Jr]

http://www.restigouchegunclub.com/Firearm%20user%20manuals/The_Colt_.45_Automatic_-_A_Shop_Manual_Vol.1_by_Kuhnhausen.pdf Download and use a .pdf reader to go to page 37, that shows

how to remove the old one and install a new front sight.

RHB

Do you know what gun parts are made from recycled farm machinery?

Extractors of course. 8*)

[duke133]

Guys,
Thanks for the info. I'll check out the link and the youtube stuff to see if I can do it myself without screwing up the slide. I don't have to remove the old one, it's just gone and the hole is clear of anything that would indicate the sight was broken off.

[Guamsst]

Check out my post RE: How does bubba install a front sight. Good info on the basic process. Since yours is not a modern econo gun you may want to pay a gunsmith (find a competent one).

[duke133]

Guamsst,
Those pics on your post did clarify a bit for me. After reading Kuhnhausen's info from RHB and checking out some of the Utube stuff Scott referred to I should be able to do this. I have the necessary items to both hold the slide in place without scratching it along with the blade. I do need a few attachments for my Dremel which shouldn't be hard to find locally. This pistol was given to a smith years ago by my Dad for some work. I guess somewhere after that the sight fell out. The hole is conical when I look at it VERY closely on the inside of the slide with he widest part of the cone on the inside. I'll clean it up first, very gently then see what I have. If it appears I cannot do this I will seek out a smith, just not the one Dad used back in the 90's if he's still in business.

[Guamsst]

In the end mine was ever so slightly loose. It was very hard to keep it all in place and straight working with the little vice on my coffee table. I put a glob of epoxy on it and it seems solid enough. Silver solder after peening it will not be GI correct....but it should be some unseen extra security.....or just epoxy it too.....or don't...LOL

[duke133]

Guamsst,
I was heading out yesterday to pick up some extras for my Dremel but my wife told me not to since Father's Day is coming up. Guess I'm getting a gift card since she would have no idea what I need. I anticipate trying to do this in about a week. Right now it's sitting in pieces on my bench. I'll let you know how it turns out. I was told instead of epoxy use Locktite Red. Any thoughts on that? A Marine now a jeweler friend told me silver solder wouldn't hold up. He said it's too soft.

[Col. Colt]

Gentlemen, the very best and permanent way to install a conventional 1911 front sight (Learned from Jim West of Wild West Guns years ago) is to:
1.) After removing the existing front sight (many just twist off a loose one with ViceGrips) clean and degrease the area. Using a Dremel type tool with a ball shaped cutter, create a "divot" or "hemisphere" directly around/under the sight slot. This makes a place to create a large enough "rivet' to hold permanently.
2.) Clean and degrease the area and parts. If you wish to use Red Loctite, have it ready, although done correctly it is unnecessary.
3.) USE THE RIGHT TOOL - OR TAKE IT TO A GUNSMITH THAT HAS ONE - the TA03 Trijicon 1911 Front Sight Swaging tool, or the very similar one by Miniture Machine, uses a wedge forced through the tool against the front sight "tail" to swage a "rivet" into the opening you created with step one. It will NOT come loose - even on a 10MM!
Anything less is not a solid, mechanical connection between the two parts. Could a GI style tool/punch work? Of course, but this is even more certain. If you need loctite, it isn't right!

Done this way, the original design front sight with the large tenon is superior to a dovetailed sight. CC

[Bill E]

Thanks much for the info on the Trijicon tool.

[ignats]

Guamsst,
A Marine now a jeweler friend told me silver solder wouldn't hold up. He said it's too soft.

That's not true. Silver solder was and still is used to attach front sights to barrels. A gunsmith machinist used to do it all the time however he warned me it will discolor the bluing on the slide due to the heat necessary to melt the solder. Silver solder melts somewhere over 800 degrees F while the solder used in electronics is somewhere around 370 degree F. The large front sights on the Springfield Armory National Match pistols were silver soldered. Trust me, it is not too soft.

I've had front sights flip off the slide of my Colt National Match while shooting in matches. While a properly staked tenon front sight will normally stay in place under normal use (whatever that is) eventually they do become loose. The GI front sights are fairly light compared to some of the heavier target sights. The inertia exerted on those type sights will cause them to come loose at some point in time. I notice a number of smiths are now cutting dovetails into the front of the slide and mounting sights that way. Personally, I don't care for the looks of that, but it is one solution.

[Johnny P]

Agree on the silver solder holding. You will just about tear the sight up before you pull it loose from the silver solder. The only down side is the amount of heat required to get the silver solder to take. Plain old 50/50 plumber's solder won't work, but the silver solder is plenty strong.

[ignats]

Weren't all the Colt Single Action revolvers, New Service etc front sights silver soldered?

[Col. Colt]

Mr. West, who showed me the technique I listed on my 10MM Gold Cup, assured me that he had done many with the Miniture Machine/Trijicon tool and had NEVER had one come loose after doing them exactly in this way. CC

[Richard H Brown Jr]

http://www.amazon.com/1911-Front-Sight-Installation-Removal/dp/B00C81XRPE

http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/general-gunsmith-tools/gunsmithing-tool-kits/1911-armorer-s-tool-kit-prod19735.aspx?avs|Make_3=1911

and the book .pdf

You might want to see if sarco site has cut up slides to practice on.

As for securing the slide in a vise. (HEAVY) bolted down to a solid workbench. blocks of wood between the slide metal and the vise jaws. and maybe some cloth to prevent scratches. and maybe a small block to fit inside the rear of the slide so you don't crush the slide when you tighten it down.

NOT an armorer, and have never done anything except replace springs and screws on my ww2 beater Remington 1911a1.

RHB

[duke133]

Col. Colt,
Thanks for the info. After taking care of some brush today I'll check out the tools. Can you tell me, the opening inside the slide, does it look like a small conical opening with the widest part on the inside of the slide when it's ready to accept the sight? In looking closely, the opening looks like a funnel if you look down at it from the inside.
Thanks again.

[chuckindenver]

originally the front sight was pressed and swaged in place,
the tool used to do this right cost well over 200.00
i have said tool, it holds the new front sight in place, and then swages the front sight as well as leaving a clean cut underside the slide.
do yourself a favor,..find a REAL gunsmith, that knows 1911s and pay him to install the sight correctly..or you will be doing it again.

[duke133]

Chuckindenver,
I do know a REAL smith and I like how you emphasized REAL. I recall a post a while back speaking about how there seems to be "smiths" popping up everywhere but all they know how to do is run a patch down the barrel and some don't even do that right. Thanks.

[chuckindenver]

picture of the front sight fixture that i use. cost a pretty penny but has paid for itself.
other 2 are cheaper variations that were less then high quality.
the nice one, presses the front sight into the slot, and then a hard wedge is drivin through the tool,
swages, cuts the post at the same time.
have yet to have a front sight come back..

[duke133]

All,
Interesting silver solder would work but I won't try it due to the chance of discoloring the slide. I think, considering I have other 1911's and A1's, I will invest in a tool. I might only need it on this one but I will pass it on when I die, just in case it is needed again. Then again, I might take all of them with me!
Thanks everyone.

[Col. Colt]

As usual, chuck has the "Right Stuff"! The original tool was, I believe, made by Miniature Machine Corp, and they Trijicon made a slightly nicer version, TA03 as I recall. The only problem is, this wonderful tooling is just under $300! Justifiable if you are a full time 1911 smith, or an enthusiast with a large 1911 collection. Otherwise, send it to chuck..... CC