NRA Museum 1903A4

[keith smart]

Trying to increase my knowledge of the A4 and came across the NRA Museum example. The text states, in part:
"Model 1903 A4 Sniper Rifle' was this gun's official title when adopted by the Army in 1943, but unofficially it was known as, The Snake."

I know the museum have been less than accurate on descriptions of various arms (Lugers, for example) but I was wondering if anyone ever heard the term before?

Thanks,
Keith

[Cecil]

First for me?

[Rick the Librarian]

Me, too.

[jgaynor]

and me as well. And I think the A4 was really adopted in December of 1942. See:

http://www.nicolausassociates.com/PDF/M1903A4%20Sniper%20Rifle%20Adoption%20-%2010%20December%201942.pdf

Thanks to nicolausassociates for posting the document on their website.

[Rick the Librarian]

I had a friend visit the NRA Museum a few years ago and he got the "inside" tour and saw a lot of stuff the normal tour doesn't include. He said he was especially unimpressed with their small collection of M1903s - nearly all of them, he said, were mixmasters; he said there were numerous M1903s owned by members on this forum that would have topped them.

[Darreld Walton]

and me as well. And I think the A4 was really adopted in December of 1942. See:

http://www.nicolausassociates.com/PDF/M1903A4%20Sniper%20Rifle%20Adoption%20-%2010%20December%201942.pdf

Thanks to nicolausassociates for posting the document on their website.


Interesting read, indeed. However, there is no mention whatsoever, of the M1903A3 rifle being modified, and, in light of the date of the letter,(10 Dec. 1942), not likely that they'd had a chance to get their hands on one and modify it.
I only see that they'd suggested the M1903 or M1903A1 rifles, with C type stock selected for "accuracy and smoothness of operation".
Nice to have an idea of what they'd considered along the way, but doesn't give any notion of what was actually adopted and produced.
I'm not, in any way, form, or fashion, trying to slam or flame your suggestion, merely giving my ideas from what I see in the letter.

[chuckindenver]

never heard it called..{the snake } before..
agree with Jim..i belive the first model avail for testing wasnt offered up to Jan or Feb. of 43. do to scope and C stock supply issues.

[Darreld Walton]

I had a friend visit the NRA Museum a few years ago and he got the "inside" tour and saw a lot of stuff the normal tour doesn't include. He said he was especially unimpressed with their small collection of M1903s - nearly all of them, he said, were mixmasters; he said there were numerous M1903s owned by members on this forum that would have topped them.

Rick, I've heard from many, many people that one of the worst places to donate notable firearms is to the NRA. Most of them end up in storage somewhere, and are never seen again.
I suppose that what is interesting to a few people might not necessarily appeal to the masses, who in all honesty, don't give a hoot unless it belonged to a celebrity or historical figure, and moreover, don't have the knowledge to 'call' them on mistakes in descriptions or configuration.
Boy Scout Troop tours, and touristas will take their word as gospel, and won't challenge it, by and large. Having said all that, I still believe that even if the NRA museum is nothing more than a sharp stick in the eye of liberals and anti-firearm fanatics, it's well worth the cost of admission to keep it up and running. 'Twould be nice, however, if the arms and descriptions were an accurate representation, even if altered.

[Rick the Librarian]

Totally agree, Derreld.

[jgaynor]

Interesting read, indeed. However, there is no mention whatsoever, of the M1903A3 rifle being modified, and, in light of the date of the letter,(10 Dec. 1942), not likely that they'd had a chance to get their hands on one and modify it.
I only see that they'd suggested the M1903 or M1903A1 rifles, with C type stock selected for "accuracy and smoothness of operation".
Nice to have an idea of what they'd considered along the way, but doesn't give any notion of what was actually adopted and produced.
I'm not, in any way, form, or fashion, trying to slam or flame your suggestion, merely giving my ideas from what I see in the letter.

Darrreld, look at the timing. The ordnance committee is in one place writing the specifications for the standard sniper rifle in mid December 42. Meanwhile Remington who has been tasked with building them, is doing everything it can to get out of the traditional 03 and 03-A1 production. The first 100 03-A4's were were produced during February 1943 and of those only two (2) were complete enough to be released to the government. The planned January delivery was missed completely. IMO Remington received the cited document, sat down with the officials in the Rochester Ordnance District and basically said "Guys with the the delivery schedule you have given us some changes are going to have to be made." For instance, when it came to the accuracy specification Remington considered what they could do and ultimately decided to gauge the barrels for uniformity of the final ream diameter ("Rifle in America", Sharpe, 1947).
The pressure was on and decisions were made quickly. Sometimes the paperwork just had to take a back seat.

Regards,
Jim

[Doug Douglass]

"Its well worth the cost of admission to keep it up and running".......................admission is free, seven days a week.

[jgaynor]

i have to admit a fondness for the old early 50's vintage Smithsonian where everything was on display:1948:

[keith smart]

i have to admit a fondness for the old early 50's vintage Smithsonian where everything was on display:1948:

Me Too! I was born in Alexandria and as a kid DC was my stomping ground

[chuckindenver]

Rock Island and Cody...best so far that iv seen

[Jim in Salt Lake]

I can agree with Cody, need to get to Rock Island. I've got my grandfather's Marlin 39A, 1939 vintage, and a docent at Cody was willing to talk my ear off about it. That's a museum you can spend a week in.

[jgaynor]

Me Too! I was born in Alexandria and as a kid DC was my stomping ground

Then undoubtedly you were familiar with Interarms and Potomac Arms aka Ye Old Hunter aka Hunters Haven) down on the waterfront. :)

Regards,

Jim

[Weasel]

Then undoubtedly you were familiar with Interarms and Potomac Arms aka Ye Old Hunter aka Hunters Haven) down on the waterfront. :)

Regards,



Jim

Been there done that many times. Liked that practice bomb hanging from the ceiling in the stairway.

[CPC]

I have never heard of the snake either (I have been a Army weapons history buff for some time), but I also agree with Darreld regarding donations. I am not familiar with the operations of the NRA but I am familiar with the Army museum system and know many items were donated to the Army that will never see the light of day unless you are somehow allowed behind the curtain viewing. They only have so much space and unless the item belonged to a celeb or determined important person (MOH. etc), there is little chance that it will make it out of the archives.. The Army has a few choice Springfield's, not necessarily in original condition but of important variations that the general public is unaware of not at the Springfield museum. For example Carlisle used to have a 1903 serial no 0000 display board that came out of RIA or somewhere (heckaman collection) that I don't think has been on display. They have some weapons that were covered in GCA articles, etc. but most of the items, uniforms, and accoutrements will not be displayed.