What do you guys think: USMC?

[shavetail]

This rifle followed me home yesterday.

USMC Sedgley barrel, 5-41 ME less than 1

Has vice marks under the handguard...and is Star guaged for some reason.

869,001 with punch mark to the left

Large Hatcher hole

S stock is unmarked and unsanded, has only a tiny 14 on the wrist and a little diamond before the trigger guard

Buttplate is smooth, not stippled

Mid band looks like a P17's, but has a B on the top and a S on the swivel (looks like the Savage S to me...Sedgley?) Bugs me a little.

Bolt has a number very lightly penciled on. It doesn't match (838,756) and looks like somebody tried to buff it off half heartedly

What do you guys think?

http://i948.photobucket.com/albums/ad328/arcsalvage/IMAG0256_zpsd40925c7.jpg (http://s948.photobucket.com/user/arcsalvage/media/IMAG0256_zpsd40925c7.jpg.html)
http://i948.photobucket.com/albums/ad328/arcsalvage/IMAG0255_zps7e0f0091.jpg (http://s948.photobucket.com/user/arcsalvage/media/IMAG0255_zps7e0f0091.jpg.html)
http://i948.photobucket.com/albums/ad328/arcsalvage/IMAG0253_zps1cb4e486.jpg (http://s948.photobucket.com/user/arcsalvage/media/IMAG0253_zps1cb4e486.jpg.html)
http://i948.photobucket.com/albums/ad328/arcsalvage/IMAG0252_zpsc847b87b.jpg (http://s948.photobucket.com/user/arcsalvage/media/IMAG0252_zpsc847b87b.jpg.html)
http://i948.photobucket.com/albums/ad328/arcsalvage/IMAG0251_zps431b6a52.jpg (http://s948.photobucket.com/user/arcsalvage/media/IMAG0251_zps431b6a52.jpg.html)
http://i948.photobucket.com/albums/ad328/arcsalvage/IMAG0259_zpscb3c3788.jpg (http://s948.photobucket.com/user/arcsalvage/media/IMAG0259_zpscb3c3788.jpg.html)
http://i948.photobucket.com/albums/ad328/arcsalvage/IMAG0260_zpsb7b1b0ba.jpg (http://s948.photobucket.com/user/arcsalvage/media/IMAG0260_zpsb7b1b0ba.jpg.html)
http://i948.photobucket.com/albums/ad328/arcsalvage/IMAG0262_zpsbad6428d.jpg (http://s948.photobucket.com/user/arcsalvage/media/IMAG0262_zpsbad6428d.jpg.html)
http://i948.photobucket.com/albums/ad328/arcsalvage/IMAG0263_zpsa61d38b3.jpg (http://s948.photobucket.com/user/arcsalvage/media/IMAG0263_zpsa61d38b3.jpg.html)
http://i948.photobucket.com/albums/ad328/arcsalvage/IMAG0264_zpsc360ea34.jpg (http://s948.photobucket.com/user/arcsalvage/media/IMAG0264_zpsc360ea34.jpg.html)

[Rick the Librarian]

The lower band swivel is a modified stacking swivel. I can get a good look at the lower band, but you are probably right - a M1917.

[M1Garandy]

I think the lower band is from a Long Branch No 4 Mk 1 rifle. The sling swivel appears like it might be from a Savage No 4 as well.

[shavetail]

Thought that S was familiar. Wonder if it was a field replacement from a Brit weapon, or just a lazy previous owner?

Do you think this was a Marine rifle?

[Rick the Librarian]

I'd vote for the latter.

[Mike D]

Nice photos! That's an relatively early Sedgely date. Barrel condition matches the receivers. I think you have a USMC '03, and bolt! See any numbers along with the "BF" on the bolt?

Mike

[Marine A5 Sniper Rifle]

Ignore my email. You have a nice USMC rifle. Enjoy it.

jt

[shavetail]

Nice photos! That's an relatively early Sedgely date. Barrel condition matches the receivers. I think you have a USMC '03, and bolt! See any numbers along with the "BF" on the bolt?

Mike

There is as a matter of fact: BF above 31. Under the bolt handle is NM with a J between them and slightly lower. Do those mean anything?

The barrel has a star gauge mark on the muzzle. I read that you could order that performed by the old DCM when you ordered a rifle for an extra charge, is that right?

JT: thanks for the information!

Does anyone happen to have a side by side comparison of a Marine sight next to a regular Army sight? I don't have anything more accurate than a tape measure and that's not real precise.

http://i948.photobucket.com/albums/ad328/arcsalvage/IMAG0265_zpsbc0327f8.jpg (http://s948.photobucket.com/user/arcsalvage/media/IMAG0265_zpsbc0327f8.jpg.html)

[amber]

The star mark should be at the 6 O'Clock position on the muzzle, NOT the 12 o'Clock position as is shown. The mark itself does not seem to match the one shown in Brophy's book. Sometimes a pasteboard card with the star gauge info recorded on it will come with the rifle. Have you looked for this card rolled up and placed in the buttstock cleaning equipment hole? Generally, you can find the star gauge number stamped into the top of the barrel a few inches in front of the rear sight. In my old aging opinion, it is a put together rifle. I hope you didn't pay much for it. Could I ask how much you paid for it?

[chuckindenver]

pictured mark on the muzzle is not a star gauge mark...done by someone other then the military.
agree, the barreled action is a USMC rifle, other bits were added later on.
must genuine USMC rifles even match rifles and snipers were sans this mark, however, some did have the star gauge marking on the bottom side of the barrel ahead of the rear sight base.
havning a USMC barrel, with plumbers table marks, BF serialed bolt, punch mark ahead of the serial, and Hatcher hole are signs of use by the USMC.
the band, and stock were likely added later after it was sold. as well as the wanna be star gauge marking.
said rifle does have some value...more so then the standard surplus 1903.
likely this rifle was sold as surplus in a scant grip stock, owner likely changed it out, for the stock pictured, as well as the buttplate and trigger guard,
guard screws should be staked in place. buttplate even if checkered should be stippled.
scant grip stocks replaced my the USMC had the area under the bolt nicely cut to clear the new replacement bolts. mill cut or sweep cuts have been seen.

[shavetail]

Thank you for the opinion Chuck, but I don't believe you are correct. The only reference to staked triggerguards that I have ever come across is for the 1941 Marine sniper rifles, not issue rifles. Staking the trigger guard screws on issue rifles wouldn't make a whole lot of sense. And this stock has the hallmarks of a USMC stock--unsanded but also unmarked grasping groove. I find it hard to believe that any one would go to the trouble of hunting down this type of replacement stock and then ballocks it up with an Enfield band.

If you have some sources for that information I'd be interested in seeing them. I've hunted down every scrap of information I can find on id'ing USMC rifles and that's the first I've ever heard of those. I don't dispute that it might be a restoration, or that there isn't a good explanation for the star mark, but that's a pretty bold assertion of fact.

[chuckindenver]

they stopped using the star gauge in 1939.
every USMC rifle iv owned has had staked guard screws.
no way that a SMLE part would be installed by the U.S. Military...
the only tell tail marking of any stock from the USMC would be a slight mill cut or sweep cut to clear the replacement bolts, the 3 USMC rifles i own all have grasping groove stocks with this mod. and all have been boned as well.
all have stippled buttplates. as well as staked guard screws.

[John Beard]

the only tell tail marking of any stock from the USMC would be a slight mill cut or sweep cut to clear the replacement bolts, the 3 USMC rifles i own all have grasping groove stocks with this mod.

The stock modification you describe was done by Rock Island Arsenal, circa 1943-44.

J.B.

[CptEnglehorn]

I have a USMC rifle with staked guard screws as well, my other one however does not, both are interesting birds.

[Handsome Devil]

Won't try and pretend I know the answer to some questions here. But the star mark looks old, but is totally not US arsenal star gauge, in my not so humble opinion. There was a small gun show company that used to frequent many shows around the Midwest who had bought truckload of surplus 03 parts, all new in the wrap. They had just about everything you could of needed at one time. Anyway as the internet unfolded they learned quite a bit about 03's and the parts they sold. As a joke they made up a "fake" star gauge stamp and marked a 1903a3 barrel. They had a pretty good laugh as the 03 collectors present went nuts trying to see or figure it out. Well anyway I serious doubt that aspect.

When the CMP brought back all the Greek 1903s if I remember correctly there were a number of rifles that came back with odd barrel bands and sling swivels that were probably of Mauser heritage on the side of the stock. Similar to some Mausers and Finn rifles. Greece had an abundance of German and English surplus ordinance laying around. So the band may be original in a historical sense of it's former life in Greece. If it was in Greece. It this came from a known source and was known to never of been out of country in service with other countries, then no doubt a aftermarket improvement. Am I making this up about barrel bands and sling swivels on side of butt stocks? Seem like yesterday these rifles came back from Greece, but time is a flying. Not to mention I do not remember much about 24 hrs ago much less when the Greeks 1903s came back in. Just food for thought. Must admit don't see the normal "Greek return" signs and symptoms.

Not trying to rain on OP very nice rifle, but I think chuckinDenver has nailed it pretty closely. I had a number of USMC drill rifles that were indeed USMC rebuilds, but the barreled action was all that remained of the original rebuild. Like everything else in the world, it is what it is. Regardless a very nice rifle. That odd mark at 12 O'clock still a mystery to me. It is close enough to catch the eye, looks like it has been there for a long time, but obviously not "right". The fact that to me it looks like it has been there for along time is what bothers me. Most fakers are lousy at the game. Regardless do not think it a true star gauge as already stated.

Cheers, John.