Not exactly a Krag.............

[JBinIll]

...........but a neat picture of a rifle not often seen in pictures.

http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p529/OldGussie/phpJK6sTKPMsailorrifle.jpg

[psteinmayer]

That's an awesome picture of a sailor with his Winchester-Lee Navy rifle! Wish I could get my hands on one...

[Rick the Librarian]

W-Ls pictures or the "real thing" are always welcome on this forum. Like Psteinmeyer, I wish I had one, as well.

[Bob S]

I have one inbound.

Resp'y,
Bob S.

[Rick the Librarian]

I have one inbound.

Resp'y,
Bob S.

I hate you, Bob!! :D

[psteinmayer]

I'm with you Rick... Jealousy is running rampant!!!

[JBinIll]

I hate you, Bob!! :D

LOL Me three.

[JBinIll]

Here's probably as close as I'll ever get to owning one :icon_tongue:


http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii306/markh166/Figures%20and%20Dioramas/Other%20Periods/Colonial%20Period/China%20Marine%20c1900/101_0749.jpg

[JBinIll]

Can't tell if these Marines are armed with them or not.Picture is no earlier than 1901 or later than 1909.When did the Corp switch?

http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p529/OldGussie/Scan3.jpeg

[Kragrifle]

I suspect these are Lee Navies from the overall length. I found several photos of armed men in the Navy around this time. Remington Lees, Lee Navies and even Trapdoors were featured. Could not find a definite Winchester Hotchkiss, though. If anyone is interested, I hope to have a reasonably complete Lee Navy display at the July Kansas City show.

[Rick the Librarian]

The Navy and Marines switched to Krags about 1902 IIRC, and then, to M1903s about 1910.

I saw a Winchester Lee at a gun show about six years ago. I might have "bitten" if Dick or one of the other "experts" would have lived nearby!! :(

[psteinmayer]

Here's probably as close as I'll ever get to owning one :icon_tongue:


http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii306/markh166/Figures%20and%20Dioramas/Other%20Periods/Colonial%20Period/China%20Marine%20c1900/101_0749.jpg

When I was at the USMC Museum at Quantico last February, I was wondering how I could sneak theirs out of the display and walk out without being noticed... LOL!

JBinIll - did you notice that your guy in the picture looks an awful lot like Sam Elliott? Haahaa

[rayg]

Here's a good photo of Marines with the WLN rifles and the accouterments, the ammo belt and bayonet, that go with the rifle. Disregard the Remington Lee name in the photo, my mistake as I just got a Remington Lee rifle and got mixed up on names.
Here's the rifle I have, it's complete with a very scarce original sling and also the ammo belt with suspenders. Ray

[Rick the Librarian]

I hate you, too!! :D

[rayg]

Just wanted pull your chain Rick, LoL

[Rick the Librarian]

LOL!! :D

[CJCulpeper]

W-Ls pictures or the "real thing" are always welcome on this forum. Like Psteinmeyer, I wish I had one, as well.

I'll try to find my pictures of the two I own.

Culpeper

[Rick the Librarian]

TWO??? I hate you, too (or maybe "two"!) :D

[psteinmayer]

LOL Rick

[Bob S]

Got the rifle, have cases, now lookin about for load data ......

Resp'y,
Bob S.

[madsenshooter]

27-32.5gr of 4064 with a 112gr spirepoint, according to Sharpe. It has a fast enough twist to stabilize 105-107gr match bullets, maybe even the 115gr Berger bullets. Sharpe shows a velocity range of 2200-2540fps with the charge range given.

[CJCulpeper]

Got the rifle, have cases, now lookin about for load data ......

Resp'y,
Bob S.

What are you using for brass? Reformed 25-06 or .220 Swift?

Culpeper

[Bob S]

What are you using for brass? Reformed 25-06 or .220 Swift?

Culpeper

I have both.

Resp'y,
Bob S.

[Bob S]

27-32.5gr of 4064 with a 112gr spirepoint, according to Sharpe. It has a fast enough twist to stabilize 105-107gr match bullets, maybe even the 115gr Berger bullets. Sharpe shows a velocity range of 2200-2540fps with the charge range given.

Thanks, Bob. Twist is 1:7.5, Metford rifling. Another data point I have is 30.0/3031 with 105 grain Speer, v~2500, close to the service load. I may start with 4895 since I have a ton of it.

Also looking for a heavy 6mm mould.

Resp'y,
Bob S.

[madsenshooter]

They pop up from time to time. There was a mold that Lyman tried once for the .243 and 6mm, which didn't work too well in them, too long, ought to be just the ticket for the Lee though. I think the Lyman # was 245499 and the bullet was 120gr or so. Hard to come by, actually even a reference is hard to come by, but I have seen the molds on ebay. I got to play with the 6mm for awhile, had a 1/8 twist Obermeyer 5R on an AR in 6x45. Now here's a fellow makes a couple heavies: http://www.generalordnanceusa.com/24Caliber.html His version of 245498 has a roundnose, he messed with mine for a long time, it isn't his fulltime job, then he sent me one he said was pre-production. I gave him some feedback, nose was too small at .233 for any modern .243 as they have a .237 bore. He said he was going to make another cherry and send me another mold. Never heard from him and never got back to him. Now the bigger one, the 245499 does have a larger nose, in fact, it's nigh groove diameter IIRC, meaning the same diameter as the bands. Might try contacting him and pinning him down on production time, and the nose diameter, he may have one in stock. The pre-production mold he sent me was quality, just can't say much for his service or communication via email. I was hoping to help him get established, leave him some good feedback on castboolits, but wasn't able to. Speaking of castboolits, I been reading on there that others had similar problems with him, maybe you'd best either steer clear, or phone him first and lay things out for him.

[CJCulpeper]

Here are a couple of Winchester Lee links for you guys in case you don't already have them.

http://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/manuals/leehandbook.pdf
http://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/manuals/M1895-Navy-Lee-manual.pdf

Culpeper

[rayg]

Neat manuals. I noticed that Ensign Twining, who was one of the inspectors of the WLN rifles and bayonets is one of the writers of the blue manual.
I have never had good luck with fine accuracy with the cast bullets in the Win Lee. Cast bullets do not perform well with Metford rifling, at least from my experience. Same with the Jap rifles that also have Metford rifing. I believe the bullets need to be very hard so they grip and not slip/skim over the smooth and shallow type Metford rifling, Ray

[madsenshooter]

That's what I found with the 5R rifling of an Obermeyer barrel Ray. I wound up casting bullets with a 23bhn lead based babbitt, then further heat treating them. Here's the best I ever managed to get out of the combination. I could get it going faster, but it wasn't as accurate. 100yd group out of scoped AR in 6x45 that I once had. Forgot to mention, it had a tight twist too, 1/8.

[MAG-63]

That's the one rifle I would seriously pay a whole lot of money for!