30-40 loads

[MAG-63]

Unfortunately, I lack the proper rifle (have a "cut down" '98, and am currently out of the country), but I would really like to shoot in the Vintage matches at Camp Perry next year. Some of you have very kindly offered some tips on loads/recipes which work well for you. My loading for 30-40 has been pretty limited, so I'm up for any suggestions you all have to offer so I can start working-up some loads in a few weeks when I'm back in the States. Thanks!
Mark

[psteinmayer]

My load for competitions is the standard Krag load of 220 gr round nose bullets (I use Hornady) over 40.0 grains of IMR4350. This is close to the original US .30 Cal loads, and works very well in my 1898 rifle. This year, I'm also using CCI Magnum primers, which I've been told will help with a cleaner, more complete burn with slower burning powders like 4350.

Beyond that, the best advice I could give you is to find what load works best for you and stick with it. It may take you a few trips to the range, but in the end, you'll be satisfied that you are using what your Krag likes best. Not all loads work the same in every rifle...

For what it's worth, I believe that in older military rifles, the load that works best is what it was designed to shoot. For this reason, I only shoot 220 gr bullets in my Krag rifle, 150 gr FMJ in my Garand, and 174 gr FMJ in my Arisakas. It's kind of single-minded thinking... but it seems to work for me, so that's how I look at it. I also know that this doesn't ring true for everyone... Also, I do shoot a 165 gr spritzer bullet in my Krag sporter though... seems to work better in that one!

Best of luck... and looking forward to seeing you at Perry next year!
Paul

[MAG-63]

Thanks Paul. My reloading for my "carbine" has been with IMR 4350 and mostly 150 FMJ bullets (because that's what I use for my 1903A3). Like you, I figure that it will do best with what it was designed for. The only heavier bullets I have on hand are some Nosler 180s which I've never gotten around to trying. And I also have a fair amount of CCI primers and IMR 4895 available. Looking online for some 200 or 220s, but you know what that's like right now!

Since you mentioned the Arisaka, I have a nice one (with the Mum) that I've never put a round through. I'm seriously thinking of reloading for that one too.

Good luck at Camp Perry!

P.S. Essex or Midway class on your avatar? The photo is small and hard to see.

[madsenshooter]

I've got some loads with 150gr FMJs to try with some surplus Russian 4895 that burns more like 4064. I'll be using the 168s at Camp Perry, like I posted before. I'm guesstimating the bullet is going around 2400fps with the powder I'm using. The load drops 7" less than the 220gr load would at 200yd and in a 10mph crosswind would drift nearly 4" less at the same range. I like shooting cast bullets and will be doing more of that once the jacketed ones I can no longer afford are eaten by my Krag and Garand. We've noted that not all Krags like to feed spitzers, model 92s and 96s seem to be better in that regard, something to keep in mind when shopping for your shooter.

[MAG-63]

Thank you madsenshooter. I'm going to be looking for some 4064 to go along with the powders I have now. My '98 doesn't have the nicest bore, so I have considered the idea of using cast bullets in it. I've also begun my search for a rifle to shoot in competition. I was surfing the CMP site looking for info on the Vintage Matches but only say a "Vintage Sniper" match listed. I'm going to look some more today. At what distances do you shoot in Vintage?
Thanks again!

[Mark Daiute]

I think the CMP calls the so-called Vintage match the "Bolt Action Military Rifle Match" but hey, I could be wrong.

All of my Krag shooting has been with cast boolits. Boolit 311299, an old Lyman classic over 16.5 grains of 4759 has been to Camp Perry twice. That's a 200 grain boolit going at somewhere close to 1.6k fps. No filler or wads but the boolits are gaschecked. Even at Camp Perry with all those rifles going off all around we I can still hear the thwack of the boolit as it hits target.

Lately I've been working with the 311284 boolit over 49 grains of 5010. This slow burning powder has my boolits approaching the same speeds as service loads. The 311284 is a 219 grain boolit and was designed for the Krag over 100 years ago.

Right now I am planning on the 311284 load for Camp Perry but may chicken out and revert to the 311299 load.

Before I get chastised again for being childish: cast boolit shooters use the term "boolit" to differentiate it from Jacketed projectiles.

[MAG-63]

Mark, I've had my Krag for quite a long time but have only put maybe 100 rounds through it. I want to make a chamber casting and slug the bore to see where I am in that regard. I load and shoot lots of cast bullets for handguns, but have never gotten into casting my own, although I'm seriously thinking about it and have been looking at the available moulds for rifle bullets in the 200-220g weights. Thanks for your input!

[madsenshooter]

Here's a little info: http://www.odcmp.com/NM/CMPGames.htm There are more details in the rules.

[MAG-63]

Thanks madsen! I did a little sniffin' around the CMP site and found it. When looking at CMP sales, it got me to thinking of maybe just re-barreling my '98 with one of the Criterion barrels instead of finding a different rifle. Since there's no collector value to it, what could it hurt? Of course, I will have to find the proper stock and hardware. I did see the one currently listed on eBay. Any thoughts on the idea?
Mark

[psteinmayer]

Since you mentioned the Arisaka, I have a nice one (with the Mum) that I've never put a round through. I'm seriously thinking of reloading for that one too.

P.S. Essex or Midway class on your avatar? The photo is small and hard to see.

That's actually the USS Ranger CV-61... I was stationed on her from 87 to 91, and did three deployments, including Desert Shield/Desert Storm. It's a Forrestal class!

As for your Arisaka, Norma brass is available from Cabelas online, Midway, or Cheaper Than Dirt. I load a 174 gr FMJ bullet over 39 grains of IMR4064, which works very well. Beware though... the Arisakas have a rather roomy throat, and the case neck expands quite a bit... when sizing, you will need to lube the hell out of the cases! You should post pictures on the Japanese rifles forum... I'm sure we'd all love to see it!!!

Paul

[psteinmayer]

Speaking of looking for a shooter... believe it or not - sometimes you'll see a good one at Cabelas. I found a pretty nice 98 about a year ago at the Dundee, Michigan Cabelas... with a great bore and a 1901 rear sight (They also had a cutdown "Bubba" sporter in a 99 carbine stock that was being touted as a "True" carbine, and way overpriced... so just be careful when looking). I also usually see quite a few Nice Krags at the Michigan Antique Arms Show. They are out there waiting to be found!

[madsenshooter]

Mark, I've had my Krag for quite a long time but have only put maybe 100 rounds through it. I want to make a chamber casting and slug the bore to see where I am in that regard. I load and shoot lots of cast bullets for handguns, but have never gotten into casting my own, although I'm seriously thinking about it and have been looking at the available moulds for rifle bullets in the 200-220g weights. Thanks for your input!

I've built a couple out of parts, working on number 3, an 1898 with Italian walnut stock that I had to get a custom forearm made for of European walnut to approximate the right color. Mark has restored a few too. The Krag is the perfect cast bullet rifle in my opinion. The most one is going to try to get out of a cast bullet is around 2000fps, though I've had little bullets faster in an AR15, and my K31. The low pressures needed to get 2000fps or less is right up the Krag's alley. Case has a nice long neck to keep the base of the bullet above the neck/shoulder junction, and it just seems to work right. Since I live in the middle of the squirrel woods, I could just imagine loading the cutoff down to squirrel shooting speeds. That'd be fun, and pretty easy as I already have some cast loads one can shoot golf balls at 100yds with. That'll be the project once the Camp Perry party is over, as the season ought to be in toward the end of the month. I love my tree rats!

[Bob S]

For what it's worth, I believe that in older military rifles, the load that works best is what it was designed to shoot. For this reason, I only shoot ... 150 gr FMJ in my Garand,

Paul

Paul,

The M1 rifle was designed around the M1 ball cartridge: Frankford Arsenal 172 grain FMJBT at around 2600 fps. The M2 ball cartridge and 150 grain FB bullet (not to be confused with M1906 Ball) came later. I shot my last supply of FA 37 M1 Ball in a match at Reading, Mass in 1984. The lot that I had shot better than all of the M72 Match that I have fired before that or since.

Most .30 1:10 barrels are remarkably flexible, but I can tell you for a fact that a 1:10 twist will not shoot the 155 grain Palma load worth a damn at 1000 yards.

"Make RANGER run!" (My boss in the shipyard in Boston had been the Chief Engineer in RANGER)

[MAG-63]

That's actually the USS Ranger CV-61... I was stationed on her from 87 to 91, and did three deployments, including Desert Shield/Desert Storm. It's a Forrestal class!

As for your Arisaka, Norma brass is available from Cabelas online, Midway, or Cheaper Than Dirt. I load a 174 gr FMJ bullet over 39 grains of IMR4064, which works very well. Beware though... the Arisakas have a rather roomy throat, and the case neck expands quite a bit... when sizing, you will need to lube the hell out of the cases! You should post pictures on the Japanese rifles forum... I'm sure we'd all love to see it!!!

Paul

Very good! I was lucky enough to go aboard the Saratoga just before she left Mayport for her final cruise. Like I said, I couldn't tell from the photo, so I didn't realize that was a super carrier. My father served on 2 Essex class CVs in the 1950s. I started my military career in the Navy, but in Lockheed P-3 Orion sub hunters. Never did any "boat time" myself.

I probably will start doing something with the Arisaka, especially since my son is showing an interest in reloading.

[psteinmayer]

The M1 rifle was designed around the M1 ball cartridge: Frankford Arsenal 172 grain FMJBT at around 2600 fps. The M2 ball cartridge and 150 grain FB bullet (not to be confused with M1906 Ball) came later.

Roger that Bob... Understood.

[Bob S]

Paul,

Yabut shoot whatever works *for you*!

Resp'y,
Bob S.