M40 Rifle Question

[7 ring]

Why does the USMC M40 sniper rifle have a wedge shaped piece of metal in a dovetail on top of the barrel near the muzzle ? Is this for a detachable front sight or is it to affect barrel harmonics ?

[Gunner]

Hi,

dont know what metal piece do you mean. The M-40 in the pic hasnt it also not the M-40A3. Do you have pic of that part?

Regards

Gunner

[Embalmer]

think hes refering to this:

http://www.navy.mil/view_single.asp?id=14699

[Liam]

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u23/Liam_068/sized.jpg

[Gunner]

Dont know how this sniper made it. I made it from an plastic stick and clued it with an hellish good glue on the top of the barrel, where a hole for and frontsight was. I used it as an emergency sight if the scope has a damage. Think it is a similar one to the M40.

Regards

Gunner

[Herschel]

That looks like the blocks used to mount aperture front sights on target rifles. These sights are on NRA Match class rifles used in some National Match Course competitions and in long range (600 yd and 1,000 yd) iron sight rifle matches.

[USSR]

Why does the USMC M40 sniper rifle have a wedge shaped piece of metal in a dovetail on top of the barrel near the muzzle ? Is this for a detachable front sight or is it to affect barrel harmonics ?

Yep. The issue rifle comes with detachable front and rear sights.

Don

[chuckindenver]

well...
the M40 was the first Remington 700 sniper rifle used 1966 to 1975, then the M40A1, M40A2and now the M40A3...and so on. all had changes based on the 700 action.
the M40 was drilled for the front sight base, and came with iron sights as well, so the rifle could still be used if the optics failed.
rumor has it, no one used the iron sights, and most were tossed.
all the M40 rifles made after were drilled for sight bases, for the same reasons.

[Badgerord]

The Pic posted by Matt is a pic of M24's not an M40's.

The M24 is outfitted with back up iron sights, the one shown is for the first version of iron sights, they were a Redfield Big Bore front and a Palma rear.

The current version use RPA iron sights.

The M40 rifles never had iron sights and the barrels were never drilled. However the receivers were drilled and tapped for a sight but none were mounted.


Marty

[chuckindenver]

i disagree, every picture i have, including the M40,s at the Remington arms museum are D&T at the front as shown.

[USSR]

I agree with Marty, the picture appears to be that of a M24, not a M40.

Don

[bd1]

During the time in question, IIRC, all Remington 700 receivers were drilled and tapped for a metallic sight base. So it would have been a matter of drilling and tapping the barrel up near the muzzle. I don't recall seeing that on original M40 barrels but some could have been or Marine Corps armorers could have done it easily enough.

[chuckindenver]

the heading says USMC photo, hard to say for sure,
the M24 is a long action, the M40 is a short action.
the M40 is based on the Remington 700 action.
the early 40x and 700,s were basicly the same receiver, until 1968 the 700 had a cutout for a stripper clip guide, and likely was only a 722 left over until supplies lasted.
the 40X retained the cutout, and had thicker walls then the later 700,s
when the Military first but in an order for the 700,s they requested they be fitted for iron sights as well, front and rear, so, the M40,s were first shipped with holes front and rear, as well as ahead of the chamber for a target sight block.{Remington just made them that way}
as the rifle stayed in service and was rebarreled? who knows.
i can tell you, not all US Property 700,s went to the armed forces. some were sent to AK, WY, MT, and other states that have Game wardens that are State law inforcement as well.
matter fact, most US Property marked 700,s were used that way..
someplace i have the ranges of serial numbers used by the military vrs, State issues..
i think the Green book on 700,s might list it..
Remington may still have some records, but ist changed hands a few times, and records get lost, chaged ect..

[Badgerord]

I have spent the last 2 years researching sniper rifles for an upcoming book.
I have personally physically inspected 6 M40 rifles including Chuck Mawhinney’s rifle in the Marine Corps museum.

I have photographs of 16 different rifles including one from the first contract and one from the last.

I have configuration management documents for the M700 Sniper (the real name for the M40, the M40 nomenclature was not used by the Corps till 1975 after the war) the M40A1, M40A3 and the M40A5 and NO front sight or holes are listed for ANY of the models.

There is No M40A2, The PWS did not use this number because of the M40A2 106mm Recoiless rifle, Some of the Snipers used the term “M40A4” to differentiate the M40A3’s with the Detachable triggerguard NOT an official designation!
After the addition of the Surefire suppressor the nomenclature was officially changed to M40A5.


Here is a little sampler from the book, "The originating requirement for the M700 Sniper was placed by the Air Force not the Corps."

The first pic...from the top

M70 Bull Gun
M40 (M700 Sniper)
M40A1
M40A1 w/ SIMRAD mount
M40A3 w/ Unertl
DMR
M40A1
M40A5 w/ DM triggerguard, PGW UNS mount and Surefire adapter

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc162/badgerord/101_2261.jpg
http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc162/badgerord/101_2262.jpg
http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc162/badgerord/101_2263.jpg

Marty

[Chris F]

the M40 was the first Remington 700 sniper rifle used 1966 to 1975, then the M40A1, M40A2and now the M40A3...and so on. all had changes based on the 700 action.
the M40 was drilled for the front sight base, and came with iron sights as well, so the rifle could still be used if the optics failed.
rumor has it, no one used the iron sights, and most were tossed.
all the M40 rifles made after were drilled for sight bases, for the same reasons.

If you look at Senich's book, "The One Round War", which is probably the most scholarly work on the USMC Sniper Program available to date, there are several close up's of the upper portion of actual M40 muzzles. There are no holes. Definitely no bases.

I can say more definitively that when they went to the M40A1's (RTE shop produced vice Remington produced), there were definitely no holes. The one exception would be when the MTU pressed the M40A1's into service in the 1000yd Roumanian Trophy Team Match. This was an iron sight match, and they fitted up their M40A1's with Iron's, then went out and won the match.

That rifle referred to by the OP is definitely an M24. It's an M700LA. HS Stock and Leupold M3 scope.
http://www.remingtonle.com/images/rifles/m24_parts.jpg

when the Military first but in an order for the 700,s they requested they be fitted for iron sights as well, front and rear, so, the M40,s were first shipped with holes front and rear, as well as ahead of the chamber for a target sight block.{Remington just made them that way} as the rifle stayed in service and was rebarreled? who knows.
It sounds an awful lot like you're referring to the Army's M24 (minus the rear barrel block).


Marty, here's a couple of interesting tidbits for you;
Did you know that the design consultant for the M24 project was a retired Marine?
Did you know that Mawhinney's M40 was still in service as an M40A1 into the 90's? E-mail me for more details if you'd like to run those down for your book.

[Chris F]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v474/BlingRat/HeavyMetal2.jpg

[chuckindenver]

nice pics,
id like to see a closeup of the USP markings on the M40...
looks like a private collection.
iv seen a few types of USP markings.
from roll stamped, hand stamped{ questionalble} and arc engraved. {genuine}
most if not all M40,s had the barrels changed at sometime, would like to see the markings on the barrel as well.
i know of 3 types of Redfield 1" tube scopes.
my dads late friend worked ar Redfield, and had a straight 12 power in the green finish, and a 4x12 in the grey finish,
as well as a 4 power green finish...until i went to the Rockisland museum, i couldnt figure what the military would want with a 4 power scope..then i saw the Ruger 1022,s select fire, and suppressed.
they had cheesy bushnell 2 powers on them...ill bet the 4 powers were entended for them.

[Badgerord]

Chris, I know the 2112 that reworked Chucks rifle from a A1 back to a 40.

There were several consultants on the M24 project including the original engineer of record for the M40 (M700 Sniper) program.

The M40 in the pic is in a private collection, it was a prize gun awarded the the National Matches in the early 80's.

According to Naval sources there were quite a few Redfield scopes found on the M40 over its life including:
The Greeney Matte finish Duplex with the range finder
The Black Matte finish Duplex with the range finder
The Black Gloss finish Duplex with the range finder
The Black Matte finish Widefield Duplex with the range finder
The Greeney Matte finish Circle/dot reticle with the range finder
This is not a complete list but all of these have been observed on issue rifles.

Marty

[bd1]

That's some great stuff on that wall. I know "improvements" came along for the M40, such as swapping in a Win M70 steel floorplate + armorer-made steel triggerguard, but that original one is a spitting image of a '60's commercial Rem 700 "Varmint Special" except it's park'd instead of blued and it has a plain stock. I still have a pair of old .308 VS's from around '68, same barrel length (24") & contour, same hokey flat "crown," still shoot like a house afire. Dial up the glass, hold hard, they'll take a turkey's head clean off at 200 meters.

[Badgerord]

BD1
Very astute, the M700 Sniper was in fact just a Parkerized Varmint rifle, with the factory addition of the scope, Rings/Base and the rest os the initial issue kit, case, sling, cleaning kit.

The configuration management document for the M700 Sniper has all the same P/N's as the varmint, just calls out a different finish and the rest of the kit.

Marty

[Mike in Wis.]

According to Naval sources there were quite a few Redfield scopes found on the M40 over its life including:
The Greeney Matte finish Duplex with the range finder
The Black Matte finish Duplex with the range finder
The Black Gloss finish Duplex with the range finder
The Black Matte finish Widefield Duplex with the range finder
The Greeney Matte finish Circle/dot reticle with the range finder
This is not a complete list but all of these have been observed on issue rifles.


I have a c.1970 Matte Black Accu-Range with a thin plain crosshair reticle...

Marty ... are you going to be doing another calendar ?

[Badgerord]

Mike,

I will do another calendar after the book is done.
I hope to have the book done in 2010.

Marty

[Chris F]

Marty,
Sounds like we may have a friend or two in common! Can't wait to get the book. I'll have to ask why they finished that M40 in a gloss coat...when I catch up.

[ordnance]

Chuck,

Here's a close up of the markings on the M40 in the collection of the Oregon Military Museum. This is a totally original Vietnam era gun that came back in the personal effects of a Marine sniper that was KIA.

http://photos.imageevent.com/ricklarson/oregonmilitarymuseumvaultguns/large/OMM%20M40%20Detail.jpg

Rick

[chuckindenver]

thats a pretty early rifle, id say about 1966 maybe 67..
mines a 1969 1970 rifle..
i doubt mine ever left the US. and likely was used my the Wy game and fish.
i wounder if Remington would have a record on that rifle..??have to checked with them?
or get a dispo, on it through the arcives.
look forward to your book when its done....
how is the barrel marked??does it have the Remington logo, and 7.62mm stamped over or next to .308??? got me all giddy..

[bd1]

Remington, when it was Ilion, used to have a "historian." Seems like her name was Pauline or similar, but don't hold me to that. She knew everything. I don't know whether she made the move when Cerberus bought out the assets and moved the plant South. It'd be worth a try.

[chuckindenver]

when i was doing some searching for info on my USP parked 700.
the lady i spoke with had some info, date made, ect, and only shipped to the a Federal depot.
but, didnt know or wouldnt say if it was US military, what she told me is that many 700,s and other Remington arms that were marked USP, were sent to other Gov, branches,
from the ROTC program, to the US Martials, Border patrol ect,
and not just the US military.
many 700,s were sent to state Game and fish depts, were the Game and fish officers were a Federal officer, and not just a state officer..
only a select few states, do this,
AK, WY, ID, and a few others that are rual and sparce populations..{guessing} do this..
last fall, i hunted in WY, and the game and fish officer that checked us, liked my bus, card, and showed me his issued rifle,,,,a real M14 Winchester...gawd it was cool..
had been modified to semi auto only, but still cool...
said that they had a few USP Remingtons back in the late 70,s and early 80,s when i first signed on..
the USP marked 700 i have came from WY. likely it was a game and fish rifle, that had been modified a bit after service...

[Sgt Rock]

NO holes drilled in barrel of original M40. NONE.

[1shot]

Thought you maybe interested in looking at these. Top: M40A1, Middle: M40, and Bottom: USMC 1941

1shot

[chuckindenver]

NO holes drilled in barrel of original M40. NONE.

are you sure, 100% sure, youve looked all 2000 or so M40,s made ????
hmmmmm.

[1shot]

The M-40's as originally produced at Remington were not drilled and tapped. The example in the Remington museum at Ilion, NY. is not D&T'd. I had the manegr of the custom shop take it off the wall to campare it to my M-40. What happened to the M-40's after they left the depots at Albany,GA or Barstow, CA is another matter.

[bd1]

Those holes are consistent with a commercial 700 barrel of the era. But hey, whadda I know? Anything's possible. Fact is, in 1965 or so you could get a Remington catalog at your dealer's or have Remington send you one. You could have your dealer order you a rifle and the guys who made them would talk with you on the phone (on your dime) if you wanted something special. That's how much times have changed.

[chuckindenver]

i was just being a smart ars...but, what i learned, never say never, or no they didnt come that way, when it comes to military weapons...
when i first started to collect 1903,s i took what the books said as gospel, now i know better.
always have an open mind when it comes to military arms. esspecially if the Marines had a hand in it.
they liked to make it work, the way they saw fit.. manuals be damned.

[7 ring]

I would appear from all the responses that the wedge shaped insert near the muzzle was for attaching a back up iron sight. :1948:

[chuckindenver]

I would appear from all the responses that the wedge shaped insert near the muzzle was for attaching a back up iron sight. :1948:

yes sir,. thats a correct assesment..

[Leyte]

Chuck,

Here's a close up of the markings on the M40 in the collection of the Oregon Military Museum. This is a totally original Vietnam era gun that came back in the personal effects of a Marine sniper that was KIA.

http://photos.imageevent.com/ricklarson/oregonmilitarymuseumvaultguns/large/OMM%20M40%20Detail.jpg

Rick

Sorry bout digging up another old thread, I found this searching for information on my Redfield I Tube scope.

Very nice original piece for sure. I tried looking at the Oregon Military Museum website, unfortunately it doesn't go into the history of the Marine sniper who fought with it.