a blackpowder 45 load under 12,000 CUP?

[LARscout]

Gents, Im not an expert on black powder burn rates for the revolver.

I need a 45 ACP load (to be used ex-changeably with 45 auto rim) .452 230 lead RN
to be loaded with 2F German Schutzen powder for a Webley Mark 6 (able to take 12-13,000 CUP).

Any charge suggestions or if this is the right powder to replicate 19th century ammunition with?

[m1ashooter]

Hope this article helps.

http://www.rathcoombe.net/sci-tech/classics/webley/webley-mk-vi.html

[LARscout]

Thanks, its a start, except he used FFg in a 45 cal revolver. Not sure how how Schutzen's 2F measures with Hodgdon.
I can only see 2F grain powder in this loading as a ways of keeping the pressures down. Maybe that was his intent.

His load:
Hodgdon H-777 FFg 1.452 OAL with a (455-265 gr RNHB)
13.5 gr 693 fps Very consistent

[John Sukey]

I doubt if you could load enough BP in a case to bother a Mk6 Webley since it was designed for smokeless powder. OR for that matter why you would want to do so.
It might be an issue with a Mk1 or a Mk2, even then I doubt it

[LARscout]

I intend to replicate the original load. Also because I like having a wider range of powders to chose from. Simplifies logistics.

So 15-18grs of any 2F powder will be safe you think?

[emmagee1917]

Remember , you want the load to set up to the base of the bullet or be slightly compressed . Any air gap could cause a ringed chamber. You can use filler if the load does not reach ( cornmeal IIRC , it's been awhile ) . FWIW , I loaded .45acp up to the base of the bullet with 3F and ran 50 rds through my Thompson just to see if it'd work. It did , but the smoke blocked the target about 1/2 way through a mag dump.
Chris

[LARscout]

Good to know, I'll make a note of that in my reloading log.

[Dollar Bill]

Just to reinforce what others have said, you need 100% case fill with BP. If in doubt, a slightly compressed load is the way to go. The burning rate of BP doesn't change, confined, unconfined or compressed. To get initial loads, measure cartridge length, subtract bullet length. This gives you the distance from case mouth to top of powder column. Drop a charges of 15gns into, say, 5 cases and measure down to the top of the column. If you're short, empty and redrop at 15.5 and so on until the powder column will be at the base of the bullet. Then I add a wad and seat the bullet.

I load for 45-70 and 38-55 and used this technique to load some 44 Special and 41 Mag loads just for the heck of it. Lots of fun and all the smoke runs off the spray & pray crowd at the local range :icon_twisted:

Using 2F, I also doubt you can do much of anything to a Webley. Most pistol ammo uses 3F as 2F is a rifle powder.

[LARscout]

I tried 15grs of 2F Schutzen under a 228gr .452 LRN. Practically no recoil at all...or accuracy. I would almost say the fouling isn't worth it, but it's a hoot to make those white smoke clouds with nothing more than a mouse fart's worth of bang. No crack to the report at all.

The powder residue clogs up the moving parts after 20rds, this is no load that can withstand prolongued firing.

[cwartyman]

Lar,
Unless you used a filler to compress the load that is why you got the amount of fouling you did. BP needs compression to burn in the cleanest most efficient manner. You would also find that your accuracy would improve also provided your bullet was the right size. In the N-SSA we typically shoot about 15 grains of 3f with a filler in our 44cal cap and ball revolvers and can go through a whole match of team shooting with out the gun binding up. I shoot a cb with a 45 colt conversion cylinder with a 250 grain .452 dia bullet on top of 30 grains 3f and I can shoot it all day long with out it binding up and no loss of accuracy. BP is unlike smokeless in many areas.
Mack

[LARscout]

RANGE UPDATE
I didn't think that would make much of a difference. Tried the same the same load with hand made wax wads. I melted some beeswax to a 3mm thick sheet and then cut it using a 45 ACP casing. Like how mom used to cut cookies.
Cuts down on the fouling and smoke