View Full Version : M1903A1 evaluation. NM?
Blockhead
07-30-2013, 06:23
Just picked up this rifle and it has generated some debate over on the CMP forum. I would like to hear from folks here too. Points of debate include whether the rifle is a National Match and if the barrel is original. Any thoughts?
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg186/Blockhead_75/Keystone%20Arsenal%20LLC/July%202013/IMG_7312_zps7238c18d.jpg
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg186/Blockhead_75/Keystone%20Arsenal%20LLC/July%202013/IMG_7324_zpsf43f83a8.jpg
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg186/Blockhead_75/Keystone%20Arsenal%20LLC/July%202013/IMG_7334_zpsc7889d64.jpg
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg186/Blockhead_75/Keystone%20Arsenal%20LLC/July%202013/IMG_7335_zpsd74cd9a9.jpg
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg186/Blockhead_75/Keystone%20Arsenal%20LLC/July%202013/IMG_7325_zpsf1c898b0.jpg
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg186/Blockhead_75/Keystone%20Arsenal%20LLC/July%202013/IMG_7327_zps59280895.jpg
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg186/Blockhead_75/Keystone%20Arsenal%20LLC/July%202013/IMG_7314_zpscc252328.jpg
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg186/Blockhead_75/Keystone%20Arsenal%20LLC/July%202013/IMG_7322_zps8e7b9aa4.jpg
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg186/Blockhead_75/Keystone%20Arsenal%20LLC/July%202013/IMG_7321_zps278252c4.jpg
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg186/Blockhead_75/Keystone%20Arsenal%20LLC/July%202013/IMG_7328_zps1c059531.jpg
Looks good to me. It was likely rebuilt for the '39 or 40 matches. Ill check my SRS books for you.
No hits in my books, but came close!
1378347 MANN 061632 MANN BBL
1378354 MANN 040132 MANN BBL
Rick the Librarian
07-30-2013, 06:54
No match on SRS.
Unless you're an advanced collector of Springfield's, Why don't you follow through with your first intent and sell the rifle. Chuck has an interest in it and I'll bet that you'll make a little extra money as well as make Chuck's day too!
Blockhead
07-30-2013, 08:01
Unless you're an advanced collector of Springfield's, Why don't you follow through with your first intent and sell the rifle. Chuck has an interest in it and I'll bet that you'll make a little extra money as well as make Chuck's day too!
My interest in keeping the rifle was initially based on its nice condition when I received it. The neat things I'm learning about it only makes me want to keep it more. :)
Blockhead
07-30-2013, 08:05
No match on SRS.
Thanks for the info Rick. I'm basically familiar with what SRS is, but is it considered the definitive source for establishing NM provenance?
Not Rick, but pretty much yes, short of original documentation.
Rick the Librarian
07-30-2013, 09:31
Only if the rifle was sold to a civilian. If sold to a member of the military it doesn't show up in the records, usually.
chuckindenver
07-31-2013, 07:10
the barrel may or may not, be original...its very common for a NM rifle to have a later replacment barrel...
they were shot...alot..
a barrel is a normal wear part...iv had several NM A1s with later star gauged barrels installed.
still think this rifle is right as rain..and i look at alot of A1s....more then most...we all have our nitch in this 1903 world...the A1 is my weakness
Johnny P
07-31-2013, 10:11
I would have some questions about that rifle. No serial number on the stock, and the numbered bolt looks more like a vibra-pencil than an electro pencil. Were the NM serial numbers ever put on the bottom of the bolt like that one?
Calif Steve
07-31-2013, 12:33
My NM does not appear on the SRS list. Not uncommon to find a real NM that is not on the list. JB could jump in.
Herschel
07-31-2013, 05:00
The 1903 NRA Sporters that were made in later years had the sn etched on the bottom of the bolt. I don't know at what time or serial number they started numbering the bolts on the bottom. 1903NM Rifles may have never been numbered on the bottom.
Johnny P
07-31-2013, 05:36
I have seen later serial number 1903A1 NM's with the number visible on the top of the bolt, but have no idea if there were any put on the bottom.
chuckindenver
07-31-2013, 06:22
USMC marked bolts ahead of the safety lug, and on the bottom as well.
rifle has a hatcher hole as well.
Johnny P
07-31-2013, 07:06
I can't say I have ever seen a 1903 bolt numbered behind the safety lug.
chuckindenver
08-01-2013, 06:40
ahead ..sorry
Blockhead
08-07-2013, 09:51
Much thanks to all those who provided information on my new rifle. With permission, I'm going to list what John Beard told me concerning this rifle's history:
Your rifle was originally manufactured as a 1931 National Match rifle.
According to records in the files from the Office of the Chief of Ordnance,
the initial order for the 1931 National Match rifles was issued to
Springfield Armory in October, 1930. Consequently, the bulk of the 1931
National Match rifles are clustered around S/N 1369xxx, give or take, which
was struck around 1 January 1931.
Springfield Armory was subsequently issued a follow-on order on 27 January
1931 to overhaul 2,140 used National Match rifles that were leftover from
the previous year. Some of those rifles, undoubtedly, failed inspection and
had to be replaced. Your rifle, therefore, may have been originally
manufactured in the March, 1931, time frame as a replacement for a used
National Match rifle that failed inspection and had to be replaced.
Alternatively, Springfield may have been issued a late supplemental order
for additional National Match rifles which I have no record of.
Nevertheless, your rifle was originally manufactured around March, 1931, and
was issued to a military shooting team for the 1931 National Matches.
Your rifle's history becomes less clear after that.
It appears that your rifle was re-barreled with a new current-production
star-gauged barrel and a new current-production nickel steel bolt for the
1938 National Matches. It also appears that your rifle was re-stocked at
some point with a Type C stock and matching handguard taken from a 1936
rifle. Even though the stock exhibits the Springfield Armory inspection
stamp of Stanley P. Gibbs, this re-barreling and re-stocking may have been
done at another Ordnance facility besides Springfield Armory.
At some point, perhaps after the 1938 National Matches, your rifle was
retired and re-issued as a service rifle. Other parts were then replaced
with earlier service rifle parts to include the bolt sleeve/firing pin
assembly and the windage screw and rear sight assembly.
In summary, you have a very interesting rifle that undoubtedly saw
competition in perhaps two National Matches and somehow escaped significant
service in WWII.
Johnny P
08-08-2013, 02:34
The "mays" are in abundance.
Blockhead
08-08-2013, 02:53
The "mays" are in abundance.
But the "originally manufactured as a NM rifle" isn't. I'm very happy with even that.
chuckindenver
08-08-2013, 05:16
JB? what do you think about the Hatcher hole??
.... Most likely done when barrel changed in 1938...
chuckindenver
08-08-2013, 06:34
agree,,,but by who? Marines? Navy??
Write your chooses on a paper, hang on the wall, get your darts out...............
John Beard
08-08-2013, 08:12
The "mays" are in abundance.
Three (3) "mays" in a three hundred thirty-three (333) word discourse constitute "abundance"? :icon_scratch: Interesting.
J.B. :hello:
John Beard
08-08-2013, 08:19
JB? what do you think about the Hatcher hole??
On 3 January 1938, Springfield Armory requested authorization from the Chief of Ordnance to vent bolts and receivers during overhaul. Their request was promptly approved. The subject 1931 NM receiver, therefore, should correctly have had the Hatcher Hole added when it was re-barreled several months later.
Hope this helps.
J.B.
chuckindenver
08-09-2013, 06:29
good info...thanks John.
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