Camillus M3 Blade Marked Repros 1990 Mfg.

[Richard Turner/Turner Saddlery]

I know I haven't posted in a long time, but need advice/help.

We were cleaning up one of our storage areas last week and found a quantity of Camillus M3 Blade Marked Repros that I bought in early 1990 from a Camillus Rep. while stationed at Camp Pendleton, CA.

History: I was just getting started in making reproductions of various WWI and WWII scabbards at the time. I had made contact with one of the Camillus Salesmen who serviced the Base PX and he helped set up an account so I could purchase the Camillus Marine Utility knives at the time to go with my Kabar scabbards. He also informed me that they were going to make a limited run of the blade marked M3 knives, 2,200 I believe, and would keep me posted if interested. I told him I would have to scrape up some cash, but was definitely interested. I ended up purchasing about 200. The factory finish was rough for my intended purposes, so I stripped the handles, bead blasted the metal, parkerized, and refinished the leather grips on about 125 of the original 200.

What I later found out was apparently, either the original factory black phosphate finish wasn't cured properly, or the leather they used for the grip was chrome tanned leather and it reacted badly where the leather met the pommel and guard causing surface rust over time. I had noticed early on, after a year or two, rust began to appear at the guards and pommels. All of the remaining knives that were forgot about over time has some minor surface rust in the aforementioned areas.

Question: Since Camillus ceased to exist in 2007, and even though these are reproduction knives and have apparently now become a collectible knife in their own right, should I sell them as is, or refinish them? Would refinishing the knives possibly hurt their value?

Also, a year or two after I made the purchase of what I was told was going to be a limited run of the M3 knives, Camillus began running M3 guard marked knives. I seem to remember they made over 4,000 of these as well.

Even though these are reproductions, I would be interested in any thoughts of the Collectors/Members of the Knife and Bayonet Board.

I apologize for the long post, but do value your input/suggestions.

Regards,

Richard

[sac troop]

Basically you have to compare them to the other M3's being produced by companies like Boker and Ontario. Since the repro Camillus knives are not being made anymore you can expect a slight premium over the others in similar condition.
The cost of refinishing these knives may not be recoverable in the present market. Recently a surplus outfit had a quantity of NOS Camillus repro's that they sold for $55 a piece with the factory sheath. They did sell all these off and it could be argued that they under priced these knives. IMHO I think it would take awhile to move these type of M3's at a price close to $100 apiece.

[Richard Turner/Turner Saddlery]

Sac Troop:

Thanks for the info on the outfit that sold some recently, I searched further and found their old listing. I'll probably just hang onto them since I am planning on running a few M6 scabbards and will offer the knives refinished as a set. I still get request for the M6 scabbards, but haven't produced but two or three since we made a large run for "Saving Private Ryan". I have various other WWII scabbard patterns as well and a good supply of NOS hardware and NOS MILSPEC thread from the 1940s and 1950s.

Regards,

Richard

[rickgman]

Richard, From a colector's standpoint, these knives are reproductions and regardless of whether the company ceased to exist, they are still reproductions. I'm in agreement with SAC troop, they will bring something in the nieghborhood of $55 and the main market will be re-enactors - not collectors. Rick

[sac troop]

Richard, I've used one of your 1907 slings on my DCM Garand back when I was chasing Leg Points, Thanks. I'd be interested in watching for these M6 sheaths down the road. Will you be posting these on the Turner Saddlery web page?
I tried creating an account there today and the page came up without any headings for the requested information. If you ever find the time to do anything about some of the other WW2 period sheaths I'd like to see those too.

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll61/sac_troop/Knives/9306b90d.jpg

[Richard Turner/Turner Saddlery]

sac troop:

Over the next several months I'm going to make various scabbards in order to take some digital photos, I'll add you to the list of interested. Here is a rough list of scabbards that I know I have either patterns or cutting dies. KaBar, M6, V42, M-5, Marine Raider Stilletto, Western L77, Western G46 8", Pal RH36, USN MKI, Case 7" Double Edge Stilletto, Springfield Randall (Pg 55 Cole Book IV). I haven't made some of these scabbards in over 15 years, but the patterns, stitiching, leather, thread, and hardware are WWII correct, most is NOS.

Back about 1995, I caught a lot of flak from some of the so called big time collectors, will not mention any names here, but also received a lot of support from those who were real gentlemen, and whom are and were considered pioneers in the martial edged weapons field. I was told I shouldn't make WWII reproductions so correct (which I was selling as such), and if I was going to make the scabbards I should change them up so collectors could easily tell the difference. My general response was If you were worth your salt, you could tell the difference. I made up some M6 scabbards back about 1994 with T.S.CO. stamped on the front (a dozen or so), thought I might catch some of the reenactors market, but no interest, I just about gave those scabbards away. Then about 2005, a few of the T.S.CO. scabbards showed up on ebay as an unknown company who made the scabbards during WWII, I believe one went for a little over $250. Dick Culver and I were doing a walk through at the Louisville Gun Show back several years ago (GCA Convention), when I spotted one of my T.S.CO. scabbards on a gents table and pointed it out to Dick. I tried to tell the gentleman I made the scabbard about 8 or 10 years back, and he flat out called me a liar. So the aforementioned is one of the reasons I haven't been real energetic about making any military reproductions whether they be scabbards or other accoutrements.

[sac troop]

Richard,
I certainly understand what your saying. I’ve seen this before and it’s kind of like your D’ed if you do and your D’ed if you don’t.
A fellow member of my state knife collectors Assoc. sold me some sheaths he made for some of my Western knives. Very nice representations and casual observers could be fooled. But I agree with you, for the life of me making an M6 sheath (T.S. Co.), well I have my opinion.
http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll61/sac_troop/Knives/8c56ca69.jpg

[Richard Turner/Turner Saddlery]

Here are a couple of photos. (This is the only photo of these scabbards I have at this time and the workmanship has improved greatly since then). The first one is of an early M6 scabbard with a refinished Camillus M3 Blade Marked repro and a Marine Raider Stilletto Scabbard with a Camillus repro stilletto. The second photo is of Mr. Howard Cole and myself. Both photos are circa late 1991 at my first saddle shop in Clay, AL, which was a full retail saddle and harness shop. I had contacted Mr. Cole while I was still living in Fallbrook, Ca, when I was first getting started in 1989. I was surprised to find out that he only lived about 10 miles from where I grew up. I told him that I was leaving the Corps and returning home to set up shop.

Once I returned home in June 1991, Mr. Cole and I became good friends and he visited the shop often. I did quite a bit of work for Mr. Cole, sewing several of his military scabbards as well as making a few scabbards for the Skinning Knife Book he was then working on. I felt honored to have known such an interesting and knowledgeable gentleman and that he included some of my work in the Skinning Knife Book. Even though he was always welcome anytime, he always called and never showed up unannounced. We spent many hours talking about knives, both military as well as skinning and hunting knives. He really enjoyed watching the old Randall harness stitcher run. He said it sounded like a freight train. I told him that from the research I had done, this was one of the primary stitchers that Rock Island Arsenal, Enger Kress, Boyt, Milwaukee Saddlery, and many other contractors used during WWI and WWII. This particular machine is a first year of Mfg., and was made in 1910. I had it completely rebuilt just before Mr. Cole and I met.

http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y417/tursad/Military%20Knife%20Scabbards/scan0001_zps1d974a31.jpg (http://s1273.photobucket.com/user/tursad/media/Military%20Knife%20Scabbards/scan0001_zps1d974a31.jpg.html)

http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y417/tursad/Military%20Knife%20Scabbards/scan0001_zps6eba425d.jpg (http://s1273.photobucket.com/user/tursad/media/Military%20Knife%20Scabbards/scan0001_zps6eba425d.jpg.html)