Ugly duckling or swan?

[Barryeye]

An old friend called around the other day to chew the cud and do a bit of wheeling and dealing. He brought with him what at first glance was a sorry looking carbine. He had no intention of trading it but sought my learned opinion as to what he had. I told him what little I could deduce and that I would seek the true learned opinion of the real experts on this forum.
The obvious first things to strike me were the ventilated metal hand guard and the lack of a barrel bayonet lug. The metal work had been painted with some flaking black gloss enamel. My friend had the bayonet bar removed to comply with a silly local law and told me that he replaced the original hand guard with the metal one “because it looked better”. He then promptly lost the original guard.
The bore is good and the only fault I can find with the action was the hold open device that is on the sensitive side. My friend assures me that it is a reliable accurate shooter.
The maker’s name is obscured by the milled rear sight but looks like SA___SG. The serial number is 187361. The barrel is stamped UNDERWOOD 9-43. There is IO or OI stamped in the sling well. There is another obscure stamping on the side of the stock and one on the bottom of the pistol grip. See pictures.
For sale or not I am tempted to make him an offer but is it an ugly duckling or a swan?
Any guidance would be appreciated.

[Barryeye]

More pictures.

[Tuna]

Well he has a Saginaw Gear Grand Rapids.( S'G' ) It's been through a rebuild and is sitting in a type 2 Inland stock. The barrel is most likely original to the receiver. The trigger is not one made by S'G' so that was changed too as well as the safety and magazine release. But the first thing you need to do is strip off that terrible paint and hand guard. The boxed P shows that the stock a carbine was in has been proofed after rebuild at least twice as one is on top of the other and the stock is a high wood that has not been cut down. You would have to take it apart to find the rest of the markings on the internal parts.

[Art]

It certainly has potential. Tuna is right, put on a correct handguard, which, since its a rebuild, would be almost any USGI handguard, strip off that paint and it'll be a quite nice representative carbine.

[joem]

If the bore is good it should make a nice shooter.

[jimb]

Diamond in the rough. You really need to look at the manufacturer's marking under the rear sight. It should be marked Saginaw S'G' .

[Barryeye]

My friend has left the carbine with me but he is not happy about me removing the rear sight. I have to respect that. I WILL find a way to read what is under it. I am starting to like this baby and have spent a few sleepless hours working on a way to separate it from my friend and to finance that without upsetting the wife. I don't want to give it back.

[Tuna]

Well it looks like old Barry has been bitten by the dreaded bug that carries Carbinitis. Now his only hope is to buy, beg or steal more carbines. And as we all know there is no cure. At least in itself it's not fatal...except death by wife which can occur.

[bug]

My friend has left the carbine with me but he is not happy about me removing the rear sight. I have to respect that. I WILL find a way to read what is under it. I am starting to like this baby and have spent a few sleepless hours working on a way to separate it from my friend and to finance that without upsetting the wife. I don't want to give it back.

Aluminum foil and a QTip have worked for me.....

[Barryeye]

Good one bug. I already tried foil being pushed into the indent with a towelling motion of a cotton cloth on top. No joy. But the idea of a QTip might do the job. Very very narrow gap but I'll give it a go. Thanks.

[Guamsst]

What else could it be besides Saginaw SG?

I think it looks good for a fixer upper but I do tend to specialise in polishing turds so this is much higher quality than what I would consider a difficult resto.

[Barryeye]

I am sure you are right Guamsst. Alas my mate has taken his carbine back but has promised to give me first refusal should he decide to sell it. Perhaps this is for the best as there are more pressing needs for my limited funds at the moment. There is something very appealing about firearms in that condition. Not sure what you would call it. Perhaps the orphan factor. I lack your talent for restoration but I could have given the carbine back its sense of pride and made it every bit as capable as its all matching parts collectable siblings.

[Johnny in Texas]

I was just looking close at the picks it looks like it has been painted black. Did you check to make sure it had not been welded back together.

[Barryeye]

Has been painted black Johnny. There is no obvious sign of a weld. I've advised my mate to remove the paint and who knows what is beneath. I doubt that it is welded more likely some local clown thought they could improve the looks with black gloss paint. Prior to the handguard being replaced , the slide retention button failing and the poor paint job this would have been a nice mixmaster. I am going to pressure my mate to at least get it back to its old self. I suspect he may have had more to do with its "improvements" than he will admit to.

[Guamsst]

Carbines, like Garands, can often be "correct" with mixed up parts. I never understood the fascination with restoring things back to the way they weren't. Same thing with guys who spend $150-$200 to get a monopod, AA sights and dustcover for a midwar Arisaka that never had them in the first place.

[Marcus]

Just wondering about that black paint......is it "Bubba's" work, or could this be something done while it was in service? I've seen a lot of Brit gun like Lee-Enfields and Enfield/Webley revolvers that received a protective coat of black paint while they were still military issue.

Did NZ or other Commonwealth forces ever use M1 carbines? Obviously with mixed parts and refurb/overhaul cartouches this wouldn't be something supplied during WW2, but what about the post-war, or Korea to Viet Nam periods?

A lot of the Mausers that were imported from Spain in the 1950's to early 1960's period were also given arsenal black paint jobs.

[Barryeye]

Good point Marcus. New Zealand did use some M1 Carbines in Korea and Malaya. The paint job is badly worn and looks unsightly. I could never restore it to a painted finish.
Guamsst I fully agree with your “Restore to a condition they never were” comment. Changing one Frankenstein into another does not appeal to me.