Thinking of buying a Krag. What books should I purchase first to make informed buy?

[WHG]

As the title says, I want to purchase a Krag to round out my U.S. military weapon collection, and want to educate myself as to what to look for before making a purchase. What books would members recomend that I buy? I have the "For Collectors Only" by Joe Poyer on order already. I am considering "The Krag Rifle Story" By Mallory, but the cheapest I've found it is $150.

I have the following rifles already, and with the purchase of the Krag I believe I'll have an example of all U.S. main battle rifles from the introduction of smokeless powder to present.
1903, 1903A3, 1917, M1 Garand, 1941 Johnson, BAR, 1927A1 Thompson, M1 Carbine, M1A, AR15, AR10.

[Dick Hosmer]

For a "one Krag" owner, that book will be totally adequate. Among purists, it has been panned, and definitely has some shortcomings for the advanced collector. More detailed and more expensive books are available.

Several people here will be glad to answer questions, and/or review anticipated purchases from on-line auction sites, such as Gunbroker.com.

Krags span the cutoff date for antiques. If you find a nice Model 1896, or an early Model 1898 (under 152500) you will be free of some of the hassle, and may - assuming the seller/dealer will co-operate - receive the rifle directly.

Welcome to Krags! Now the trick is to keep it to one. Since you already differentiate between the 1903 and the 1903A3, that might be a problem! :-)

[dave]

If the dealer will co-operate, that is the question. I had to go thru the whole bit when I bought the 1895 dated '96 carbine recently. Most dealers are unfamilar with the laws and will not take chances!. When I had a collectors FFL not one dealer would accept it that I tried!!

[5MadFarmers]

As the title says, I want to purchase a Krag to round out my U.S. military weapon collection, and want to educate myself as to what to look for before making a purchase. What books would members recomend that I buy?

Brophy and Mallory. Get both.


I have the following rifles already, and with the purchase of the Krag I believe I'll have an example of all U.S. main battle rifles from the intrduction of smokeless powder to present.
1903, 1903A3, 1917, M1 Garand, 1941 Johnson, BAR, 1927A1 Thompson, M1 Carbine, M1A, AR15, AR10.

Aw, we'll spend some money here. The straight pull Lee of the Navy is missing. As are the Nagants they hauled to Russia. Walking down that path also captures the Ross rifles if so inclined as they bought them for training. US troops served with the Brits and French during WW1 and were armed with their weapons. Accepting that those were also made here you've now sucked in the Pattern 14 and a Remington made Frenchy. Might as well make the set complete via a Belgian Mauser made here also. Given it's just one more rifle, include the Savage made SMLE of WW2.

Aw, rifles are looking complete. Except you've listed the M-1903 and M-1903A3. Let's use that as the segway as you'll need Remington and Smith Corona for the latter. RA, RIA, and SA for the former. That covers the '03s. At this point you'll need a bigger safe. Might as well get two as it's going to expand and those might as well match.

Now that you have the '03 by maker that gives 4 M1 rifles and an entire flock of M1 carbines. Are we doing hand guns too? If so it's going to get ugly real fast (Singer is a bummer).

Krag models you'll be after are the M-1892, altered and unaltered, M-1896 and M-1898 rifles. M-1896, M-1898, and M-1899 carbines. Doing .22s? If so there is the GP for Krags and the M-1903 .22 editions. Then we get to those specific .22s they bought. Those exist in large numbers.

Shotguns. We mustn't forget shotguns. Did I say two safes? Might as well get the third early.

Run now. Run screaming.

[5MadFarmers]

Aw, you're still here. Why discriminate against the black powder guns? I mean you'll likely never get a rod bayonet '03. One trapdoor won't hurt. It's just one rifle. You already have the safe space. Might I suggest the rod bayonet trapdoor? They're a lot of fun to shoot. You've not really lived until you've felt that force against your shoulder. It's different in ways you'd need to experience. Just one? Aw, ok.

You'll also need the 1884, non-rod bayonet addition. Might as well just get the 73 and 79 also. Ditto the carbines. Did you know they made them with triangular bayonets too? You did keep the contact information for that safe retailer didn't you? Chaffee-Reece, the Army and Navy Lees of the period, the Remington RB, a couple of Ward-Burtons. Can I interest you in bigger cartridges? .50-70 perhaps? You already have the Ward Burtons. What's a few more rifles?

Have you ever seen the Spencer carbine?....

Muskets are interesting too. Can I interest you in the different makers of the M-1861s? Perhaps a Colt also? Mississippi rifles are a must have.

Tools. Let's not forget the tools. You do have the combination tools for the M1 rifles right? Both the brush and non-brush editions. You'll need the oiler and thong assembly inside those guns right? Cartridge belts too? Might as well attach a canteen. The cartridge belt is clipped to the haversack so you'll need some of those too. How big is your house? Do you have a pole barn handy?

[psteinmayer]

LOL at 5MF!!! Since you have the M1A, AR-10 and AR-15 listed, I was going to ask where the M-14 is? and the M-60? and since you're stocking up... you'll need an M-2, and if you get one attached to an M-60A3 MBT, then you'll have the 105 mm covered as well!

[Rick the Librarian]

Yep, I started out the same way - just ONE Krag as a "sample" for my collection! I can say "No" anytime I want!! :D

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[Dan Shapiro]

I can say "No" anytime I want!!

Snicker............how many times have we all said that!

:icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol:

[dave]

5mad---you forgot the sniper rifles, experimantal and those actually issued!

[Bob S]

Did I say two safes? Might as well get the third early.



I have outgrown five safes ......

Resp'y,
Bob S.

[5MadFarmers]

No, Dave, I didn't forget the snipers. Sanity prevailed on those and I've ignored them. The shotguns and .22 rifles also. Quite weak in regards to hand guns also. Not that it matters that much as it's still too many.

Once upon a time I had a friend, he was unemployed at the time, make a jewellery chest for the wife. When he finished with that I had him make me a nice revolving gun cabinet. 8 long guns. I was thinking that 8 would do. Shotgun, high power, .22 and perhaps a surplus military rifle. So I'd only need 4 of the 8. I still have the cabinet of course. There are 8 guns in it. Gun cabinets are a dumb idea as home theft isn't prevented. Zanotti armor. He makes them in various sizes. I have three of his biggest - ZA3s. That's 52 long guns per safe. I found myself asking, when they were full, which guns warranted that protection. So there is a gun cabinet, 3 big safes, and a pile of dogs laying in a spare bedroom. I'm not buying another safe. I don't have room. Unless I get a pole barn.

In my next life I'm going to be smarter. I'll build a new house. Excavate the ground under where the garage slab will be. Pour that over the top forming a concrete box. A vault. It's the only way.

[Rick the Librarian]

Pete Davis, who used to post on CSP all the time, built a beautiful "vault" out of stonework. He used to post numerous pictures - really a first class job. I used to kid him all that was needed was a machine position or two!

[WHG]

I did say this was my collection of smokeless powder main U.S. battle rifles, so shotguns, training rifles and pistols need not apply. I only have a Springfield 1903, but I do have a Smith Corona 1903A3 to go along with my Remington. I also have all three manufactures of the M1917 along with a Winchester Garand to keep the Springfield company. M1 Carbines are only represented by Underwood and Inland at this time. Since the 1927A1, BAR, M14 and M16 are considered machine guns I have to settle for semi-only copies. I'm not familiar with the straight pull Lee of the Navy, so I'll have to check that one out and add it to my list of future purchases. I decided to limit my collecting to smokeless powder since I shoot all my guns, and I really don't want to mess with black powder. It's a real pain to purchase black powder now adays.

[5MadFarmers]

I did say this was my collection of smokeless powder main U.S. battle rifles, so shotguns, training rifles and pistols need not apply.

Limit the collection. Wise move.


I only have a Springfield 1903,

RIA and RA needed....


but I do have a Smith Corona 1903A3 to go along with my Remington.

Those are covered then.


I also have all three manufactures of the M1917

Another model checked off.


along with a Winchester Garand to keep the Springfield company.

IHC and HRA needed...


M1 Carbines are only represented by Underwood and Inland at this time.

"at this time." "at this time." :eusa_shhh: The other makers will hear you.


I'm not familiar with the straight pull Lee of the Navy, so I'll have to check that one out and add it to my list of future purchases.

Standard Navy and USMC rifle in 1898.


I decided to limit my collecting to smokeless powder since I shoot all my guns,

.45/70 is a cartridge and factory loadings exist.

Both Remington and New England Westinghouse made Nagants. When they sent the US troops to Russia they armed them with Nagants as it simplified the ammunition supply. The Nagants weren't made for the Russians at that point as they were US contract and are so marked. Some retain the Russian markings of the original contracts - those were just taken over as is.

They bought 10,000 Winchester rifles in 1898 and provided lever action rifles to the "Spruce guards" in the Northwest during WW1. States purchased Remington-Lee army rifles before they received '03s.

So, given the Johnson, the Nagant is likely a must. The others aren't.

[Dick Hosmer]

The "Spruce Guns" were M1894s in .30-30. Opens a NEW can of worms - but - saved (once more) by the "main battle rifle" theme!

[5MadFarmers]

The "Spruce Guns" were M1894s in .30-30. Opens a NEW can of worms - but - saved (once more) by the "main battle rifle" theme!

That's not how I heard it. From what I heard you're severely underestimating both the size and ferocity of the mosquitos present during that particular lumber battle. I myself, when pulping as a lad, preferred a 12 gauge with slugs. I want those things to go down the first time. The horseflies were another matter entirely. Dear old dad was too cheap to provide the necessary AAA protection against those buggers. Cheaper to just write off a few kids as wastage.

[Dick Hosmer]

Sometimes it is difficult to differentiate between horseflies and horses**t.

Trust me on the Spruce guns - I happen to know the prime researcher thereof. :-)

[5MadFarmers]

What I know is before that unfortunate summer the IRS filing listed 14 dependants. After it was 9. I'll never forget the morning they got Billy. Horseflies are impervious to 12 gauge slugs. Four rounds into it didn't slow it down. I gave Billy the 5th at his request. Mercy killing.

Missing the H&A Mauser. also the RA and WRA Pattern 14s. Winchester Lee also. I'm skipping the mosquito killers and the '95s.

Need a Blake.

Have a 12 gauge. 11-87. Too cheap for AAA although that M42 Duster on eBay a couple of years ago looked like it might work on the smaller horseflies.

[psteinmayer]

There is one thing... and one thing alone which keeps me from buying more Krags, and anything else for that matter... My Wife!!! She'll shoot me if I come home with another gun, LOL!

[Kragrifle]

Make sure she shoots you with a common rifle. I would hate to see a rare piece end up as police evidence!

[psteinmayer]

Amen to that!!! :D

[jon_norstog]

Not too much on the Krag per se, but I would recommend reading Charles Johnson Post's book "The Little War of Private Post." Post served with the 71st NY Volunteers and carried a trapdoor, but was in the thick of the fighting. You really get a worm's eye view of the Spanish American War. On the Spanamwar website http://spanamwar.com/

there are unit reports and a lot of letters home, diary entries, etc.

The Krag was not in service a long time, but there was a lot of action, much of it in far-off places. And some of it on the home front, as in the federal response to the Coeur d'Alene mine strike. Welcome to the history club.

jn

[Rick the Librarian]

That's one thing that attracted me to the Krag - about 10 years of first-line service, but a LOT of action seen in that 10 or so year!