Kriger is Shady

[GillaFunk]

Rant on;

In February I called Krieger to order a non-parkerized .30-06 GI spec barrel with a 1:11 twist, that would be custom chambered for my hand-load. I spoke to one of their workshop/barrel cutter's at length about what I was looking to have done. I was told it would take about 8 months to finish. 6 months later the barrel was done and shipped to my gunsmith. The gunsmith is assembling my build and noticed something odd about the barrel.

http://gillafunk.smugmug.com/Weapons/M1941A1-Clone/i-PzNQk4v/0/M/1903%20Krieger%20Barre_B-M.jpg

http://gillafunk.smugmug.com/Weapons/M1941A1-Clone/i-7F6t4gk/0/M/1903%20Krieger%20Barre_A-M.jpg

Mainly it was 3.5" too long :eek:

After emailing Krieger I was told that since they did not short chamber or crown the rifle, it was left at blank length, but cut for the front sight key at the correct legnth. In short, they told me I'll have to cut, crown and finish the barrel on my own dime.:icon_scratch:

Now, this is my first rifle build, but given what I told them, and after looking at my order form, and emails to them I am astonished they are pulling this malarkey, knowing full well I am not happy with what they did, nor is it what I ordered.

My only hope is the chamber is short enough to still accommodate reaming/finish for my custom round length. The smith has already resolved the barrel length/crowning issue.

Either way a bighttp://www.acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/finger.gif to Krieger for weaseling out of providing what was asked.

Note to self; apparently one has to talk to Krieger staff like a 5 year old to ensure that what you order is accurately produced. Otherwise, it seems they do whatever they like, and you don't know what you'll get until it has shipped.

Rant off

[Bill H]

I have had many barrels installed by my gunsmith, and in most, if not all cases, the blank is about 27 inches long, and cut to finish length and crowned by the gunsmith. Look again at your written order. If it does not include the crowning of the muzzle, sounds to me that the barrel maker did what is standard in the industry.

[chuckindenver]

the issue i see, is that extra money and instructions were given to get a barrel in the exact form of a 1903 springfield, short chambered so that the gunsmith {me} could cut it to his handloaded cases, as he plans on only shooting his handloads.
he paid twice as much for this barrel in the white, then he could have gotten one from Criterian parked , short chambered, and crowned correctly..
said barrel is now cut and crowned..and star gauged for that matter... but this cost him more money...when in fact, he paid more to have it done from them.

[GillaFunk]

Look again at your written order. If it does not include the crowning of the muzzle, sounds to me that the barrel maker did what is standard in the industry.

I spoke with the Krieger rep the day I submitted my form, and addressed the form to him via email. I identified I needed the chamber will be finished for custom dimension loads. On my order form I asked for a 1903 Springfield mil-spec barrel in the white, with a custom twist.

No where at any time was anything said about not finishing the muzzle to mil-spec.

I paid extra and waited 6 months for a custom barrel that should have only needed chamber finishing/reaming and a park job. What I got was an unfinished barrel.

Kreigers response, in short is, 'Oh well'. So much fail.

[Greg/Wi]

I know...you paid for a standard length barrel, but does you 'smith not have a lathe? Would seem to be a simple task to cut and recrown. Custom jobs often throw a curve ball to the builder.

[chuckindenver]

I know...you paid for a standard length barrel, but does you 'smith not have a lathe? Would seem to be a simple task to cut and recrown. Custom jobs often throw a curve ball to the builder.

have you read this post?? yes, his smith has a lathe....and yes..his smith got it handled...
see the pics?????

[Greg/Wi]

Sorry Chuck, missed the pic of the crown job. Looks good. The barrel should be and accurate one.

[GillaFunk]

Meh....either way, I have no doubt Chuck will boss this rifle out, will shoot like laser and will easily replace my Rem 700 as my favorite bolt action.

[Handsome Devil]

Sorry to hear your troubles. I shot competitive for about 10 years and Krieger barrels were all I used except for one Douglas M1A barrel that lasted 1500-2000 rds. Built my Win 70 match rifle with one, but that one too was finished by the gunsmith. We knew it was going to be a blank so there was no surprises. Always thought of them as top notch outfit. Sounds more than frustrating. Good luck with your custom rifle. Regards, John.

[chuckindenver]

so this barrel issue just got even worse...and addmited i over looked it untill now..
this morning...being on the down side of his project...i set his barreled action into my soft jawed vise..as i planned on finish reaming his barrel to his handloads that he sent with the rifle and barrel...to find...the barrel wasnt ever chambered...not short chambered, not full lenth chambered.....NOT CHAMBERED...WTH??
i am supprised at the BS from this company...really... im sure some lack of communication is in order....but this is pretty stupid...
when a customer paid more for special services...why miss the basic services of a install barrel...and then not own up to it...cant say would ever recommend them to anyone in the future...so...now..ill have to remove his barrel after i have it drilled and tapped for his mounts...and bore sighted....and chamber the barrel....and then install it again. and rebore sight the scope...what a big waste of time...if i had a time machine...i would have stopped...and check all this before i cut the muzzle and drilled it..my mistake was trusting that they would have short chambered the barrel....
let me make my statement clear...im not putting all this on Krieger.. as soon as i saw the muzzle being longer then normal, i should have looked at every part of this barrel...dems ect...i trusted that i would have gotten a short chambered barrel in 30-06 cal, like the customer thought he ordered....i belive this is a 3 way fail...first the customer for not getting clear on what he was buying, Kriger for not making sure exactlly what he ordered..and lastly me. for not make damn sure the barrel is right...
the big issue i have is how Kriger responded to him...basicly you ordered it..you did it..rather then say..hey. there was a breakdown in communication as to what you needed and wanted.. we value you as a customer, lets see how and if we can make this right...
on my end. iv kept the customer in the loop as to the issue...and wont charge him for my over sight on missing the chamber issue.. just my own frustration on having the barrel, set up, sights installed, bases installed, scope bore sighted ceneter..and was hoping to have it parked and assembled by mid week...
Kriger dropped the ball, and gave the customer the we dont give a S&Ht additude... it truly could have been handled better..

[pelago]

wow, not getting a warm fuzzy feeling about ordering a barrel from CMP, and of course it is a Krieger?
but a CMP order gives me a ready to install barrel and it is supposed to be short so that smith can ream it out

[chuckindenver]

no.. the CMP is selling Criterian and Kriger barrels, that have already been checked and spec..
i belive this was a one time deal, that was got right from Kriger.
the breakdown in communication is the real issue here, and how Kriger responded to the customer is my issue.
i understand how a barrel blank is shipped.
however,. this customer paid more for a cut and contured barrel, i was supprised with all the work done to it, that they just ommited the chamber and muzzle..
and when contacted about the lack of these options, the responce was for lack of a better term...sux to be you additude.
i have made the barrel right, it is now chambered to his handloaded round, and done so with a match grade reamer. crown was also done to as close to a G.I. muzzle as i could get.
note that the area for the front sight base was a bit over sized. and i needed to work a front sight base for it to fit correctly. and may still high temp it in place as well.
a company with the reputation it has, should have admited the mistake in walking the buyer through the options, rather then say...its what you wanted.. were not responsible...
a little customer service even when the customer has made an error goes a long way.
i made it right.. he should be happy..his rifle is on the down hill side of the project, even with the speed bumps that were put in the way..

[chuckindenver]

picture how how his barrel was shipped..and after i short chambered it before reinstall.

[GillaFunk]

I am done with Krieger. Never ordering from them again.

I am an excellent communicator, and can do it in 2 other languages. I most certainly did NOT get what I asked for from the barrel they supplied. Should have just sent that POS back to them. Cork suckers.

[chuckindenver]

look at the brite side.
youll have a nicely crowned, and butter smooth chamber, if you break it in well,. and squeeze the switch right, it should do the job well.

[da gimp]

always had extremely good luck with them..............never had a problem...........

[Phil McGrath]

Well guy's its really my fault I pumped up Gilla on a 03a1 build a very long time ago. Glad there is light at the end of the tunnel. How is the rest of the build going. Update please.

[chuckindenver]

his rifle should be delivered tomorrow...some custom engraving was done. or it would have been done a couple weeks ago..

[m1ashot]

Custom barrels are custom for your smith to do all the work, like chambering thread and shoulder, cut and crown. My obermeyer m1a came only with contours, gas port was not drilled. Krieger has an excellent reputation. Sounds to me you wanted a drop in with short chamber. If you wanted a custom chamber you normally supply loaded cases,
I think maybe you did not understand what a custom barrel was. Let's put it this way Criterion = 914 Porsche, Krierger = 911 Turbo. 914 one built to VW specs and price. And a Krieger custom barrel, on a regular 1903 action seems like a waste. More to custom that meets the eye.

[chuckindenver]

think you missed the points...
first...he paid them extra money to cut a short chamber, crown and conture the barrel for the 1903..
short chambering is fine. and then finish ream to a customers handloaded rounds...is common..
second...
what differance does it make what action is being used?? if i pay extra money for a barrel made for a wards .22 rifle...shouldnt they take the time to do it right??
so ..Krieger should only sell barrels to what YOU think is a quality weapon? personlly i think a Porsche is a big over priced POS, well..maybe you have a point...Kieger, Porsche...hand in hand lol

[da gimp]

I suspect that Kreiger's rep forgot to write down all the specs per 1st conversation............or that someone called to complain about the length of the waiting period & said to send them the dern barrel............just guessing chuck........... like I said, we always have had exc service from them...........

[GillaFunk]

............or that someone called to complain about the length of the waiting period & said to send them the dern barrel.............

I certainly didn't call and complain about the wait. As stated in my OP, I expected something like 6-8 months, and was surprised when it showed up in 5.

Either way, I still stand by the title of this thread.

[Jim in Salt Lake]

I'm sorry you had this giant PITA goat rodeo to go through but now that it's done, how does it shoot? Have you had a chance to try any target loads though it?

[GillaFunk]

I just last night sorted out an extractor issue which was causing cambering issues.

I had taken the rifle to the range once, just to break the barrel in. To get the scope zero'd I started at 50y. I was having so much fun that I realized I had plowed through 20 rounds, most of which were clover-leafing, before I knew it. That equates to about .5MOA I figure. Then I placed 1" dots and was easily able to put a round in each. Moving to 100 yards I lost a little accuracy, but considering I'm using CMP ammo I really wasn't expecting much.

Once I get the time later this month I will do a full review and a range report using custom reloads. By then I will be able to really show how well this puppy performs.

Either way, I'm sure that once I have the right reload cocktail for this plinker, I'm certain she will become my favorite bolt gun.

[Jim in Salt Lake]

I'd be interested in your reloading results when you get to it. I put together my 1903a1 last year and it is my favorite bolt gun. One of the things I've had fun with this past season is experimenting with a bunch of different powders. With the lack of supply, I've shot IMRs 4895, 4064, and 4350. I've also loaded Ramshot Big Game and Alliant Reloder 19. Bullets have been Sierra MK 168 and 190 (in the old cardboard boxes from my late Dad's stash) and some Winchester 147 FMJ boat tails I've had so long I don't remember getting them. Those Winchesters actually did OK but the Sierras were better. Got good results with the Big Game and Reloder 19, I'd never used them before. My barrel is a low mileage SA 07 so I'm a little jealous of your new Krieger. Chuck drilled, tapped, and mounted my scope blocks. He also sold me one of his A4orgery bolts as my rifle came with a SHT bolt. I love Chuck's bolt, it's much smoother than the old one. I shoot it in mid range belly matches, if you have those in your area give them a try, they're a lot of fun.

[m1ashot]

Sorry I think Porsche is an overpriced POS also that's why I drive a jag. Putting a Krieger on a un blue printed 1903 is silly. You would also need new trigger, and bedding. Like cars you just can't stick a Holley dobule pumper on and think you have a race car

[GillaFunk]

wow. Sorry you feel that way.

I have my reload tests complete. This issue rifle from 1942 fitted with just a Krieger barrel shoots better ballisticly than my Remington 700 .308.

Using 190g SMK, IMR4350, and HPX brass shoots ~2660fps, SD 4.9, ES of ~5 or so. Its a fairly jolting experience with that load, so my groups are only about 1.5MOA right now. Once I get some trigger time this spring, I should be Sub MOA for sure.

She can constantly hit an 8" plate at 700y using Greek surplus ammo.

I never wanted a race car. I just wanted an accurate 1903 that will hold its own at 1,000. I have enough adjustment in the scope to reach out to 1,000. If she holds 8" groups at that distance during competitions, I will be totally happy.

[swampyankee]

GillaFunk this is the reason many people do not post on these boards, no matter what, someone has to piss on your cornflakes. Good luck on that build , sounds like that's a life long rifle.
m1ashot you must be rich because that's the only way you could afford to keep a jag running.

[chuckindenver]

who said his rifle wasnt blueprinted??? it was, and by me...

[GillaFunk]

I'll be sure to post a lengthy picture heavy build and range report of this clunker once all the last bits are reassembled.

chuck knows how to build boom sticks.

[chuckindenver]

by the way, the small parts lot is about done, just have to put the rear sight together, and box them up