My new Rock Island 1903 just arrived today!

[Fred]

Well, It finally came and it's far better than I'd thought. I'm going to have to post some pictures as soon as I take care of our dogs who are outside somewhere looking for the Peacocks which are hopefully roosting up high off the ground tonight. My God, this rifle is too good to be true. The front sight is original and not a replacement like I'd thought. Just had to get the dirt off of everything. Almost 100 percent original finish on everything. Sure you're thinking... but you haven't seen it yet. I'm amazed. Bore is pristine too. The photo's will be coming real quick tonight.

OK, here is the inspection stamp on the left side that I believe was put on by Ora E. Lindsay, who used this single letter stamp in 1917 and possibly 1918 at Rock Island Arsenal. However, below the first photo is another showing the firing proof stamp under the wrist which is a block P of the type applied at Springfield Arsenal.
Nothing is stamped on the fore end tip of the stock. I'm reminded of the 1903 that I recently saw a photo of that showed a block P within the circle on the wrist but also showed an RI on the end of the fore end of the stock. That rifle was of course one of those that was assembled at Springfield Armory around 1927 or 1928 using a mixture of Rock Island and Springfield parts. I'm wondering, could it be that my rifle was also assembled at Springfield Armory at an earlier date just after or towards the end of WWI using parts that were supplied by Rock Island? There are some Springfield parts on it such as the safety, rear band, front band and possibly the rear sight leaf. The bolt is an earlier but unworn straight handle type from Rock Island and has a D1 on the end of the safety lug, which means that it was made in 1912 I believe. Anyway, the bore of this rifle is pristine and I don't use that term loosely. all of the parts on it seem to be from the correct time period of WWI, except for the bolt. The stock is also pristine with all edges sharp and clean. The barrel has the date of 7-18 on it and is of course a Rock Island. It's possible that the receiver is not case hardened or blued but is possibly the early Rock Island Parkerizing. It is 100 percent complete with no wear on the surface. John Beard can correct me on this if I'm off. If so, then like John told me earlier, the receiver is probably one of those lower than serial numbered receiver 285507 that was double heat treated. This information can be found within Nick Ferris' book, "Rock Island Rifle Model 1903" on pages 67, 68 & 69. Sorry for the bad photo's It's dark outside and so I have to use the library lighting in the house and it's pretty dismal. I'll take some better photo's outside tomorrow.
Now, all that being said, what John Beard told me earlier about this rifle is in all probability accurate and true. John said that this rifle is probably one that was issued to a WWI era unit that disassembled all of their rifles upon receiving them and cleaned all of the parts and assembled the rifles again from separate piles of cleaned parts. However that still leaves me wondering about that L inspection stamp that could've been applied by Ora E. Lindsay who only worked at Rock Island Arsenal. Beats me.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/RockI6_zpsa866804c.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/RockI6_zpsa866804c.jpg.html)

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/RockI2_zpsbea88eeb.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/RockI2_zpsbea88eeb.jpg.html)

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/RockI8_zps8b702a74.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/RockI8_zps8b702a74.jpg.html)

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/RockI7_zpsf03ae117.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/RockI7_zpsf03ae117.jpg.html)

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/RockI5_zps0cf39e24.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/RockI5_zps0cf39e24.jpg.html)

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/RockI1_zpsf483176f.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/RockI1_zpsf483176f.jpg.html)

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/RockI4_zps68f8198f.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/RockI4_zps68f8198f.jpg.html)

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/RockI3_zpsc8956fbe.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/RockI3_zpsc8956fbe.jpg.html)

[CptEnglehorn]

beautiful rifle.

[p246]

Nice find. Every rifle seems to always have one or two mysteries with it....that's part of the fun trying to figure it out.

[Fred]

Here's some 1903 porn that I took this morning.
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/ss26_zps34407b76.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/ss26_zps34407b76.jpg.html)

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/ss25_zps9f211d45.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/ss25_zps9f211d45.jpg.html)

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/ss24_zps598c95d1.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/ss24_zps598c95d1.jpg.html)

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/ss21_zps7564878c.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/ss21_zps7564878c.jpg.html)

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/ss22_zps6214f80d.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/ss22_zps6214f80d.jpg.html)

[Fred]

Here are some more...

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/ss23_zpsb44c6033.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/ss23_zpsb44c6033.jpg.html)

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/ss19_zpsda67cafd.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/ss19_zpsda67cafd.jpg.html)

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/ss20_zpsbd6bda8b.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/ss20_zpsbd6bda8b.jpg.html)

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/ss17_zpsa367f337.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/ss17_zpsa367f337.jpg.html)

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/ss16_zps5ff5d67b.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/ss16_zps5ff5d67b.jpg.html)

[Fred]

Still more...

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/ss18_zpsa62a506f.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/ss18_zpsa62a506f.jpg.html)

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/ss15_zps3b605bd9.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/ss15_zps3b605bd9.jpg.html)

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/ss13_zps3e30220a.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/ss13_zps3e30220a.jpg.html)

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/ss9_zps3b13f59c.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/ss9_zps3b13f59c.jpg.html)

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/ss9_zps3b13f59c.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/ss9_zps3b13f59c.jpg.html)

[Fred]

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/ss8_zps0645c593.jpg[/UR

[URL=http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/ss6_zpsba2e5a6f.jpg.html]http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/ss6_zpsba2e5a6f.jpg[/UR

[URL=http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/ss7_zps384c47d5.jpg.html]http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/ss7_zps384c47d5.jpg[/UR

[URL=http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/ss10_zps00164703.jpg.html]http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/ss10_zps00164703.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/ss8_zps0645c593.jpg.html)

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/ss5_zps01abb0e1.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/ss5_zps01abb0e1.jpg.html)

[Fred]

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/SS1_zps6647c5dd.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/SS1_zps6647c5dd.jpg.html)

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/ss4_zps5b2f603e.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/ss4_zps5b2f603e.jpg.html)

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/ss2_zps1df29397.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/ss2_zps1df29397.jpg.html)

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/ss3_zps840f1309.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/ss3_zps840f1309.jpg.html)

[Rick the Librarian]

Nice rifle, Fred -- it's great to have a rifle with just a little bit of "mystery" to it! :D

[Fred]

Yea I guess so Rick. I'm glad that nobody else wanted it. I was the only one who pursued it. I'm real happy about that! :banana100: The wife is hoping that it'll be the last 03 for awhile. As a matter of fact, she suggested that I try to sell it right away for a profit. Hell, it ain't about money or profit. It's about looking for, finding and finally obtaining a particular rifle that calls out to me. I don't wanna sell it. I wanna play with it for awhile.

[mannparks]

Love them RI guns

[Rick the Librarian]

Ain't THAT the truth!! :D

http://www.fototime.com/A5FB267DBDB82ED/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/F0B7A62EB94A285/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/D21391C07A518A2/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/C05F4DFBC6BE20D/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/9D686CF45DD3C97/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/A805780068AC47B/standard.jpg

[Fred]

Rick, that 3rd rifle that you've pictured is the one with the 7-18 barrel date. I'll bet that it too has a double heat treated receiver. I'd like to hear John's opinion on whether that receiver has the early Rock Island Parkerizing. Look at how well the rear sight fits too. Nice!

[Rick the Librarian]

It's academic, because it won't be a shooter. As I said, I got it as a "vehicle" for a POD stock I had. Sort of wished I would have kept the earlier stock, a JFC.

[Fred]

I'm going to use all of my 03's if and when the dreaded Mau Mau uprising occurs. That won't be happening though. LOL. After this, I'm just interested in continuing my acquisition of excellent and unissued WWI web and leather field gear. I'm anticipating a rise in collector prices for this stuff when the 2017 Centennial of our entry into WWI gets here. Don't want to see it disappear like all of the Civil War surplus stuff did that Dixie Gun Works used to sell by the box load before it was all bought up. Since we have a herd of horses, I've decided to piece together a U.S. 1916 over the Mexican border Expedition or WWI Cavalry outfit to throw on my favorite horse Travis. That includes a McClellan saddle, blanket, rifle scabbard, saddle bags, picket pin, bridle and all of the rest of the stuff. Ooops, can't forget the Patton Sword! Heck, why not? I'm just a big kid with a lot of time on my hands since I've retired early. LOL

[Rick the Librarian]

You might email/PM VeeVee who occasionally posts on this forum. He has friends who re-enact the Philippine Scouts 26th Cavalry (who used that type of equipment. He might be able to help.

[Fred]

Great! I might just do that Rick. Thanks!

[Rick the Librarian]

Fred, you mentioned about when they changed from serif lettering to block lettering. Here's a 292,000 range RIA I had years ago with block lettering.

http://www.fototime.com/9141E7B8D619892/standard.jpg

Here's a 278,000 range with the block letters, also (not mine, saw this on Gunbroker):

http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/361948000/361948325/pix330624959.jpg

[John Beard]

Fred,

You have a splendid-looking rifle! Thanks for taking the time to make and post pictures!

Your rifle is a bit puzzling. As you noted, your rifle is fitted with assorted parts from Springfield Armory which would not likely appear on a rifle originally assembled at Rock Island Arsenal. I am also inclined to believe that your rifle's stock was manufactured and stamped at Springfield Armory. Rock Island Arsenal was not the only Ordnance facility using single-letter inspection stamps during WWI. Springfield Armory also used them.

The finish on your rifle's receiver and barrel appears to be bluing. Is that correct?

And, finally, if your rifle's barrel is original, and I'm inclined to believe that it is, then you have a Rock Island low number double-heat-treated rifle.

Hope this helps. Thanks again for taking the time to make and post pictures!

J.B.

p.s.,

I have a data base showing Rock Island's transition from serifed to block lettering in great detail, as well as their switch from script to block serial numbers.

[Fred]

http://www.fototime.com/A805780068AC47B/standard.jpg

Rick, Nick Ferris states in his book that the changeover occurred sometime before 268693, but he also says that there are some overlaps to this change like 279166 and 282412, which he says Do have serifs. Your Rock Island rifle pictured above, 272505 which has a 7-18 barrel also has serif letters and so is one of those "Exceptions". Pretty interesting.

[Fred]

Fred,

You have a splendid-looking rifle! Thanks for taking the time to make and post pictures!

Your rifle is a bit puzzling. As you noted, your rifle is fitted with assorted parts from Springfield Armory which would not likely appear on a rifle originally assembled at Rock Island Arsenal. I am also inclined to believe that your rifle's stock was manufactured and stamped at Springfield Armory. Rock Island Arsenal was not the only Ordnance facility using single-letter inspection stamps during WWI. Springfield Armory also used them.

The finish on your rifle's receiver and barrel appears to be bluing. Is that correct?

And, finally, if your rifle's barrel is original, and I'm inclined to believe that it is, then you have a Rock Island low number double-heat-treated rifle.

Hope this helps. Thanks again for taking the time to make and post pictures!

J.B.

p.s.,

I have a data base showing Rock Island's transition from serifed to block lettering in great detail, as well as their switch from script to block serial numbers.

Hey, thanks for the input John! Yes, my rifle looks like it might be blued. I mean it's very blue and not at all what I've become familiar with as Parkerizing. I had started thinking that as a rule, the low number double heat treated receivers were parkerized, Could it be then that some were still blued? Apparently so. That's always a Good thing as Forest Gump was fond of saying. I wonder how many of the low number double heat treated rifles there are out there still. Maybe there were at one time around 10,000 or so? Difficult to say how many of the early receivers didn't pass the testing after heat treating. Somebody had been firing it with non corrosive ammo before I got it as the bore had a lot of carbon in it but no pitting whatsoever after cleaning it. The bore appears to have a mirror perfect surface with sharp lands.
That's interesting about the use of single letters for inspection stamps at Springfield Armory. The rifle certainly is a bit puzzling for sure.
It came with a perfect conditioned nickel plated oiler and cleaning kit in the butt trap. There was a length of green rag through one end of the brass pull through and no brush. I've got a correct type brush coming in the mail shortly.
I'm glad that you like the rifle and the pictures too John. I used my I-phone to take the photo's. Not too bad when I could hold still enough for a sharp picture. I'm pretty thrilled to have been able to get it when I did.
John, I'd be interested in seeing where my rifle fits in on your database.

Thanks John!

Fred

[John Beard]

Rick, that 3rd rifle that you've pictured is the one with the 7-18 barrel date. I'll bet that it too has a double heat treated receiver. I'd like to hear John's opinion on whether that receiver has the early Rock Island Parkerizing. Look at how well the rear sight fits too. Nice!

Yes, Rick's third rifle, RIA S/N 272505, has the original early Rock Island Parkerizing. And yes, it's double-heat treated.

J.B.

[John Beard]

I wonder how many of the low number double heat treated rifles there are out there still. Maybe there were at one time around 10,000 or so?

Thanks John!

Fred

You are correct. RIA wartime records indicate that about 10,000 low number receivers were actually double-heat treated.

Hope this helps.

J.B.

[Fred]

Thanks John. It's good to know that my rough estimation is well grounded.