German Capture 1911

[LAH]

Never saw one before. Is it real? Common? Thanks, :hello:

http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/365382000/365382681/pix027253346.jpg

http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/365382000/365382681/pix378993958.jpg

[Mike Josephic]

I have never seen one of these (but some expert on this forum may have). However, the stamping on the slide "Erbeutet am 8 7 1944"
means "Captured on July 8, 1944". So, whomever would have faked this did go through some trouble.

Mike

[dave]

Why would they stamp it that way, with a capture date? I have several German capture and used rifles (Czech) and none are stamped in such a way. On the other hand, that was not stamped by hand in someones basement! Hmmmm!

[Tuna]

I appears that it has been parkerized after it was stamped.

[Johnny P]

The marking was put on with a pantograph machine. Most any jewelry store or trophy shop has one. Ruined an otherwise nice Remington Rand. After June 6, 1944 the Nazis had much more important things to do.

[Rick the Librarian]

I know the Nazis captured bushels of U.S. weapons - I doubt they'd take the time to "memorialize" just one unless it had special significance. And there is no probable way of proving that. The letters and numbers definitely look "German", I will say that.

[Michaelp]

Imagination hard at work. "A" for effort. Some old timers believe this is the same way "Spandau" Lugers appeared. Imagination plus equipment and ability.

[The Wolf]

At least they got the way Europeans date things correct... the day, month, then year. Simply amazing that someone would take that amount of time to fake something like that. Just asking here.... could it have been something that a German officer who captured the weapon may have done on his own, namely taking it to a jeweler and commemorating the event?

Best Regards from Virginia,

Chris

[Johnny P]

Or maybe one of the Liberty ships was blown up by a U-Boat and the pistol came from a case found floating nearby.

[Garandy]

Every Nazi captured rifle I owned, Italian, Dutch, Danish, Austrian, Czech, had Heereswaffenamt HWaA proofs in the wood, I never had heard of any .45s being used except Norwegian M1914s. I'd run from it

[Duane Hansen]

Or maybe one of the Liberty ships was blown up by a U-Boat and the pistol came from a case found floating nearby.

I think that you may be on to something! If it were mine, I believe that I would make a placard with that on it and then display the pistol at some of the more prominent shows in the area. Just a Thought.....

[Johnny P]

Well, he has a choice between the capture by the German Officer or the U-Boat.

[Duane Hansen]

I think that both could easily be worked into the story.......

[Johnny in Texas]

Here's one! Some German officer captured it lets say Field Marshall and he had it marked and hung on his wall in an office in Germany. Let say in Berlin and it was hanging there when U.S. troops captured Berlin and some G.I. saw it on the wall and liberated it, all the way back here and now it is just a 1911A1 with an unusual past. I don't think it is a Fake because it is well done and done properly. I don't think there is any value added unless there was provenance to go with it. You never know. Operation Charnwood took place on July,8 1944.

[Duane Hansen]

Here's one! Some German officer captured it lets say Field Marshall and he had it marked and hung on his wall in an office in Germany. Let say in Berlin and it was hanging there when U.S. troops captured Berlin and some G.I. saw it on the wall and liberated it, all the way back here and now it is just a 1911A1 with an unusual past. I don't think it is a Fake because it is well done and done properly. I don't think there is any value added unless there was provenance to go with it. You never know. Operation Charnwood took place on July,8 1944.

Without any provenance or documentation, I would say that the pistol would be worth considerably less with the markings than without.

It looks like a very high condition pistol but the markings without documentation takes away most serious collector's value, in my opinion.

[Marcus]

Actually, that's Adolf Hitler's personal .45 - he took it off an American paratrooper who had been air-dropped into Berlin on a secret mission to kill "Der Fuehrer". In their famous ".45 duel" at the Brandenburg Gate, Adolf drew his Norwegian made Nazi marked 1911 a split second faster, and shot the RR out of the American's hand.

Many years ago I once saw a "presentation" artillery Luger at one a local gun show that belonged to the famous "Red Baron". I know this because it had "Manfred von Richtofen" engraved on it. I wish I had bought it now, it would go well with this other historic and rare German pistol.

I also once had the chance to buy one of Jesse James' Smith and Wesson pistols. It even had his name, "Jesse James" stamped on it. Of course, some know-nothing skeptic claimed that that model didn't even come out until several years after Jesse James had been killed. This same fool also claimed that a Confederate Civil War "C.S.A." marked pistol by the same seller was fake because it was made in the 1870's. I think he was just making all this up so he could try to get those guns real cheap for his own collecti

I might add that Adolf Hitler's Nazi marked Norwegian 1911 was also chrome plated and had his name engraved on it - only very high Nazi officers and officials were allowed to carry chrome plated guns with their name on them.

[Scott Gahimer]

Never saw one before. Is it real? Common? Thanks, :hello:

http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/365382000/365382681/pix027253346.jpg

http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/365382000/365382681/pix378993958.jpg

The pistol is real. The marking is real, too. However, in reality, both probably have nothing to do with the pistol being captured during WWII. The engraver simply killed the value of what appears to have been a nice, collectible Remington Rand. On the bright side, it's only the slide...and there are a lot of Remington Rand parts around. With a different slide, the appearance of the pistol might be restored. However, originality cannot be restored by changing parts.

In its present state, the pistol is worth about the price of a nice Remington Rand pistol...less the slide.