Keep these fakes for reference

[Rick B]

Figured some may want to keep these pictures for comparison if you see a fake and want to show some one the difference if one o fthese ends up on a gun for sale as orignal.. Rick B


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Krag-Gun-Stocks-/321208366601

[Kragrifle]

No matter how good the rest of the wood might be, they can never duplicate the inletting at the grasping groove like Springfield.

[Rick the Librarian]

Comes with genuine fake inspection stamps - wonderful. *(NOT!)

[gnoahhh]

I don't know, I wouldn't mind having one for the purpose of using a spare 1896 receiver and carbine barrel to build a classy knockaround rifle- one I wouldn't cry over if I mucked it up while hunting with it. Biggest complaint is the price of the stocks, aside from the fact that someone, somewhere, will use one to pass off a fake as an original. Re-ennactors will probably take a shine to them also- nothing like having a factory fresh rifle to portray a SAW trooper who, incidentally, would have been carrying a factory fresh rifle back then, not a 115 year old patinized example. These stocks do have their place.

Do they open up avenues of fakery? Yes. Should we ratchet up our diligence? Maybe. Should newbie collectors learn about such things before taking the plunge? Definitely- but there's nothing new under the sun in that regard anyway. There has always been fraudulence in every field of collecting. (I know of a guy who is faking antique beer can openers. Some rare 'church keys' from obscure breweries bring big bucks from guys who collect the things.) Caveat Emptor.

[Dick Hosmer]

Not very good workmanship there - over-sanded, proper curvatures lost, varying grooves, bad stamping, lousy finish, etc. I believe that at least part of the problem is the use of lightweight "Home Depot" grade duplicators which flex under the stress of cutting a dense wood.

Probably, the cartouches bother me the most - as do the a$$holes who have been renting them out for the last few years. While I can see a re-enactor need, I do not know how to provide for same without opening the door to future chicanery.

[Fred]

There's no need to ever duplicate an inspection stamp on a rifle. The moment that you enhance a marking, it devalues the rifle forever. Why would anyone with a brain do this? If a person cannot find a rifle with clean readable stampings, then they should keep looking for one. That's the thrill of collecting. Not producing something that's a fake just to say that they've got something. That isn't any part of collecting. What's the thrill or fun of that? It's like renting some hot looking whore out to be seen on one's arm in public. She's still a whore. You're not impressing any serious collector. Just who are you trying to impress?

[Rick B]

My problem wasn't with the wood as that is easy to pick out. The Inspection stamps are what I wanted everyone to see. That has always upset me. Rick B

[Dick Hosmer]

There's no need to ever duplicate an inspection stamp on a rifle. The moment that you enhance a marking, it devalues the rifle forever. Why would anyone with a brain do this? If a person cannot find a rifle with clean readable stampings, then they should keep looking for one. That's the thrill of collecting. Not producing something that's a fake just to say that they've got something. That isn't any part of collecting. What's the thrill or fun of that? It's like renting some hot looking whore out to be seen on one's arm in public. She's still a whore. You're not impressing any serious collector. Just who are you trying to impress?

+1, Fred, my rationale EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!! WHO ARE YOU EFFING KIDDING, GUYS?? Talk about mental illness - sheeeeesh!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Rick the Librarian]

I still shake my head over a thread on "reproduction" stamps on CMP a year or two ago - about 35 posts, all but maybe 6-8 not seeing what the problem with them was or telling to mind my own business!:eusa_wall:

[Rick B]

Well Rick you know me and I have no problem going after these folks and smacking the idiots around who find nothing wrong with it. I have had my name attacked, my family and my business to which I invited lawsuits and a good go around behind my barn if anyone had enough testi's to try. So far no takers and two tries at lawsuits with no luck on their parts. :) Rick B

[Fred]

I cannot understand the attraction a fake stamp on a stock has for anyone who professes to be a collector. The very presence of such a stamping negates forever any possible value or collectibility of that firearm. Just as a phony $100.00 bill isn't worth the paper it's printed on. Such a stamp won't fool anyone truly knowledgeable of the subject and will only lower ones standing in the collecting fraternity. You can dress a pig up in a silk dress and put lipstick on it, but you only end up with a rediculous looking pig and make a fool of yourself. Oh and as a famous person once said, you only annoy the pig. No, I don't think that everyone who uses such a stamp is out to rip somebody off financially, I just feel that they aren't thinking it all the way through. What are they gaining? Nobody whose knowledge is instrumental in the world of U.S. Krag's and 1903's is going to be fooled or impressed. It's those very people, who's purchases, trades and sales of such firearms, who are instrumental in establishing the ever evolving collectors value of those firearms. That is what Flayderman's Price Guide is based upon. Now if anyone wishes to develop another and separate group of Krags and 1903's with fake stamps and features, then that's OK. Get together and have fun. However those firearms will never have a place in the world of original U.S. Firearms or their values. If some folks spent as much time in searching for and finding original and unaltered legitimate rifles as they do in creating copies, they'd really have something. Such original and fine examples are not that difficult to find. Many are not expensive if one keeps looking for them. That's a good part of what is in the thrill of collecting. The search. That's why they keep going up in collector's value. It's the difficulty in finding them. You guys who have finally found and acquired a special and long sought after gun know about that.

[Rick the Librarian]

Well Rick you know me and I have no problem going after these folks and smacking the idiots around who find nothing wrong with it. I have had my name attacked, my family and my business to which I invited lawsuits and a good go around behind my barn if anyone had enough testi's to try. So far no takers and two tries at lawsuits with no luck on their parts. :) Rick B

Rick, if you ever need a "character" reference or anything else I can do for you (which may not be much), please let me know. You shouldn't be punished for telling the truth!

[psteinmayer]

Awful pricey for a repro stock with a fake cartouche that will be used to fake a correct rifle... although I suspect someone wanting to "Fake" a carbine or other valuable Krag won't mind spending the money. I'm with Dick and Fred. Just say NO!!!

[psteinmayer]

I cannot understand the attraction a fake stamp on a stock has for anyone who professes to be a collector. The very presence of such a stamping negates forever any possible value or collectibility of that firearm.

My 1898 is 100% correct and can be traced to 1917/18 France in the Great War with certainty. It also has no visible cartouche (the Proof is still visible). Whether this is because of sanding or stock replacement during an arsenal rebuild - who can say. I will say, however, that I would never DREAM of having a fake stamp added. First of all, the Krag has history in it's lineage... and second, it is far and away my favorite rifle. To modify or otherwise fake something on it would be sacrilege!

[sdkrag]

In my opinion faking for sale and profit is the reason the date stamps are being produced. I can't think that any collector is in his right mind thinks he needs to add one of these to make his Krag better.

[Fred]

Good for you guys! :icon_salut:
My wife and I have a 1914 dated GEW 98 that her deceased first husband left her. It was given to him by his dad who picked it up in the Argonne after the battle of the Somme. My wife is younger than me, but she married her first husband very young. Anyway, her Father in Law found the rifle in a trench or a ditch after some fighting. It has the original bolt to the receiver, trigger guard and the original stock, but the barrel bands and the safety are numbered differently. You can see that the rifle had probably been reissued after it'd been cleaned and repaired over the years in the field. The unit armorers of course made sure that the original bolt always stayed with the barreled receiver for head space purposes I'm sure. Anyway, the rifle has a fantastic bore as whoever the soldier or soldiers were who used it made sure it stayed that way. Upon showing the rifle on line in a forum some time ago, a nice fellow offered to take the odd numbered parts on the rifle in a free exchange for parts with the correct numbers stamped onto them. I don't know if he had the idea of stamping some parts to match the rifle's receiver and bolt, but I politely turned his kind offer down, telling him that the rifle was used for some time with these parts on it and that these parts had been switched around by a unit level armorer on or near the German front line and that the fact that the armorer had made sure that the bolt and receiver and trigger housing and guard remained with each other was significant. That changing the parts out for correctly numbered but non original parts to the rifle would be a shame as probably all infantry rifles at that time on the Imperial German front line were constantly being policed up from battle fields and taken off to be broken down and cleaned before being re assembled and re issued to another fresh incoming soldier. The last of whom had used the rifle before my wife's father in law had found it with the body of the final soldier to whom it belonged. I wouldn't change it for anything. It even has the original sling with it and one of the original two cartridge carriers from the soldiers belt. Of course he'd obtained a butcher type bayonet for it from either that soldier or another near by, but the rifle does have a bayonet with it. That kind of direct provenance with a WWI rifle is pretty cool I think.

[psteinmayer]

I totally agree Fred! The guy who offered the parts with the corrected stamps probably wanted to get his hands on original parts, in addition to offering to "Correct" the rifle. I love the story though... It's always interesting to learn about a rifles interesting history!

My 1898 is the rifle I used in Vintage at Camp Perry. The soldier (probably a National Guardsman) who used it in France during 1917/1918 brought it home with him and promptly deposited it under his bed, where it stayed until his death in the early 1960s. His son didn't want it, so he gave it to my father, who eventually passed it on to me.

[jon_norstog]

I'd use my own initials if I were faking a cartouche.

jn

[Fred]

I'd use my own initials if I were faking a cartouche.

jn

Now THAT sounds like a perfect solution! I like that!